1890 ŒWG Gewehr 88/05 9293s with damage

chrisftk

Moderator²
Staff member
Hi Guys,

Here's another purchase from a month or two ago. The one popped up on a random dealer site I happened to stumble on during a bout of insomnia. lol.

What I liked about it were really three things:
1) the condition and fact it's a rather rare matching 88/05 (surviving examples with the German rear sights are very hard to find)
2) The receiver unit mark is always cool and
3) Some sweet damage from a likely shrapnel strike.

The rifle itself completely matches and shows all the hallmarks of a 88/05 conversion. There are no depot markings on the buttplate.

The conversion consisted of:
- Attaching stripper clip guides to the rear of the receiver. (Nathaniel recently provided documentation of screws that were later ground flush, but Ernie also has anecdotal evidence that plug welds may also have been used)
- Milling a slot on the siderail to load a stripper clip
- Milling a small notch in the receiver to accommodate the 88 Patrone rounds loaded by stripper (Thanks Ernie)
- Significant modification of the magazine to accommodate stripper clip feeding and render enbloc clips unusable
- Replacement of the rear sight (thanks Ernie)
- Checks to ensure proper chambering of the S Patrone Rounds
-Acceptance indicated by a small character on the stock, above the cypher and another on the RR

The wood is in excellent condition with a duffel cut behind the rear band. The metal is also in pretty good shape with some old cleaning on the receiver and mild pitting on the left side.

The damage is interesting, as it appears to have entered the wood, dislodging a decent amount of the interior of the left side of the barrel channel before being stopped by the barrel jacket which shows a large dent. The exterior doesn't look so bad, but under the wood there is a significant chunk missing. The unstable part of the wood appears to have been repaired by a subsequent owner, but it's still pretty striking.

In any case, here are the pics:

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Also interesting that you can see where the penetration screwed up the barrel jacket a bit.

Is there any indication of having been a bond rifle?
 
Nice 88/05 Chris. I love the chunk of wood on it damage and all
Thanks man!

Also interesting that you can see where the penetration screwed up the barrel jacket a bit.

Is there any indication of having been a bond rifle?
Thanks-- no, this one looks to be a bringback with the d/c and great bore/matching bolt.

I do have a 88/05 bond rifle and bore is plugged, bolt m/m with missing bolthead and clipped firing pin.
 
I am still very interested in the clip guides . It seems they were done both ways . When and why I do not know yet . Ideas : Did they start out with the screws that were very labor intensive first then someone said we can just weld in these holes and not have to drill and tap the receiver , we have to grind them anyway ?? A later war time fix ? I need to not be lazy and get a micro camera and check the inside of the receivers of the 120 88/05's of my collection and a few friends . By just looking at the top of the receiver on a few rifles I can see some with the old ground screw slot and others with no sign of it . I do know they were not edge brazed or riveted like many books say .
 
I am still very interested in the clip guides . It seems they were done both ways . When and why I do not know yet . Ideas : Did they start out with the screws that were very labor intensive first then someone said we can just weld in these holes and not have to drill and tap the receiver , we have to grind them anyway ?? A later war time fix ? I need to not be lazy and get a micro camera and check the inside of the receivers of the 120 88/05's of my collection and a few friends . By just looking at the top of the receiver on a few rifles I can see some with the old ground screw slot and others with no sign of it . I do know they were not edge brazed or riveted like many books say .
You can pick up acceptable but not great bore scopes off Amazon for ~$50. If you're willing to go up to $100 you can get some nice ones. Generally the cheap ones plug into your computer or a phone, the nicer ones will have their own head unit. If you have a half way OK computer the cheap ones are fine.

That $40 crappy Amazon bore scope was easily the best gun-adjacent equipment purchase I've made in the last few years. There are so many dumb questions that have been quickly answered by pulling it out.

They're also useful for getting an extreme close up of a marking that you're having trouble parsing. I've had good results rubbing a little oil on the metal to pick out the highlights getting the bore scope right up against it at an angle to snag differences in reflection where the metal was depressed. Helped me puzzle out a few things on some old blackpowder guns with extremely degraded markings.

Which is all to say I highly, highly recommend getting yourself one.
 
Chris,

Great rifle!

If you'd like I can get around to finishing my write up on the 88/05 process from Mauser and German arsenals. It details all the operations, machining, gauges, function checks, and acceptance. I never finished it because I can't technically publish the archives documents and because there just isn't much more information to add to the story.
 
If you'd like I can get around to finishing my write up on the 88/05 process from Mauser and German arsenals. It details all the operations, machining, gauges, function checks, and acceptance
That would be awesome. I understand the documents are a touchy issue lol But I'd be curious to hear your perspective on the processes.
 
It will certainly be interesting to see how those were attached. You can see the 2 circles on each side. It’s more homogeneous in appearance than the screws on a sniper scope base ( but perhaps it’s because the screws slots are gone) labor intensive but excellent results. Nice clean rifle with battle damage Chris.
 
One more odd thing to throw out there . I have 2 05's with no S stamp on the receiver . All the other stamps are crisp , so it is not wear . Both are late dates , a 1898 and a 1899 . ???????
 
It will certainly be interesting to see how those were attached. You can see the 2 circles on each side. It’s more homogeneous in appearance than the screws on a sniper scope base ( but perhaps it’s because the screws slots are gone) labor intensive but excellent results. Nice clean rifle with battle damage Chris.
Thanks Rick

One more odd thing to throw out there . I have 2 05's with no S stamp on the receiver . All the other stamps are crisp , so it is not wear . Both are late dates , a 1898 and a 1899 . ???????
That is very interesting. I would hazard a guess that the fact they are both late production ones is more than just coincidence. Are there any other observations you have as to why they might have been differently handled?
 
That's an awesome rifle and excellent pics to boot, congrats on picking it up! I didn't realize that there were 2 separate methods of adding the stripper clip guides, I have to wonder if the methods were depot or arsenal specific.
 
Thanks Rick


That is very interesting. I would hazard a guess that the fact they are both late production ones is more than just coincidence. Are there any other observations you have as to why they might have been differently handled?
I have such a small sample that I have come up with nothing so far . Hence the ????? That is why I posted here , anyone else seen this ?
 
Hallo Leute,

Hier ist ein weiterer Kauf von vor einem oder zwei Monaten. Der ist auf der Website eines zufälligen Händlers aufgetaucht, auf die ich während eines Anfalls von Schlaflosigkeit gestoßen bin. Lol.

Was mir daran gefiel, waren vor allem drei Dinge:
1) der Zustand und die Tatsache, dass es sich um ein eher seltenes 88/05-Modell handelt (erhaltene Exemplare mit deutschen Kimme sind sehr schwer zu finden)
2) Die Empfängereinheit ist immer kühl und
3) Einige schöne Schäden durch einen wahrscheinlichen Granatsplittereinschlag.

Das Gewehr selbst entspricht vollkommen und weist alle Merkmale eines 88/05-Umbaus auf. Auf der Schaftkappe sind keine Depotmarkierungen vorhanden.

Der Umbau besteht aus:
- Anbringen von Ladestreifenführungen an der Rückseite des Empfängers. (Nathaniel hat kürzlich Unterlagen über Schrauben vorgelegt, die später bündig abgeschliffen wurden, aber Ernie hat auch anekdotische Beweise dafür, dass möglicherweise auch Lochschweißungen verwendet wurden.)
- Fräsen eines Schlitzes in der Seitenschiene zum Einlegen eines Ladestreifens
- Fräsen einer kleinen Kerbe in den Empfänger,
Wow ein sehr tolles 88/05
Glückwunsch
 
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