DAK vz24?
- Thread starter fireman
- Start date
fireman
Senior Member
It could be but that cap is a first model w/soutache. By 1942, they were made w/o that. It could be new old stock that was issued in Italy though.
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
The Bundesarchiv tag on it says it's Summer 1943. The last of the DAK surrendered in early May '43. It's not impossible, but I'm a touch skeptical as I doubt they were running many film cans back to mainland Europe as the situation deteriorated in the Spring and early Summer. IIRC, von Luck, for example, had to evacuate riding as a nose(?*) gunner in a HE111.
Sicily / S. Italy could be another option. I don't know how many of the evacuated DAK soldiers came over with their equipment vs. how many had to be reequipped. That might explain the vz, but that's pretty raw conjecture.
*Either that or a ventral/dorsal gunner. I just remember him commenting on how the 20mm he was babysitting was similar to the rig used in some of their recon/scout vehicles. It's probably been 30 years since I gave his memoirs a close read, though. I forget where a Heinkel might have been sporting that kind of setup in mid-43.
Sicily / S. Italy could be another option. I don't know how many of the evacuated DAK soldiers came over with their equipment vs. how many had to be reequipped. That might explain the vz, but that's pretty raw conjecture.
*Either that or a ventral/dorsal gunner. I just remember him commenting on how the 20mm he was babysitting was similar to the rig used in some of their recon/scout vehicles. It's probably been 30 years since I gave his memoirs a close read, though. I forget where a Heinkel might have been sporting that kind of setup in mid-43.
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
As Cyrano already said, this photo was taken after the German Africa Corps surrendered in Tunis. This soldier wasn't a member of the DAK, he served in Russia and his unit was subordinate to Heeresgruppe A. It was taken on June 21, 1943 and during this time not only the military situation was hot in this area (Kuban bridgehead, Kerch strait), but the weather was too.
Actually the Tropenbluse (jacket) should be closed and the sleeves long, not rolled up. The Heeresgruppe A war diary says that day temperatures were exceptionally high, it was cloudy and very humid, the unit commander had probably "ordered summer" because of this.
The commander of the German command in the capital of Crimea issued an order regarding the dress code for tropical uniform. The period for wearing the tropical uniform in this area was ordered between May 1, 1943 and September 30, 1943. If the soldiers were given holiday or ordered to another location during this period, they had to wear their tropical uniform or their field gray uniform, they were not allowed to mix them.
Now back to the topic of DAK, Africa and VZ24 rifles. I have looked into the documents of the High Command of the Wehrmacht and for the DAK here is a small excerpt with the following losses:
64,348 Karabiner 98k
1,189 Karabiner 98k m. Zf. (K98k with scope)
498 Gewehr 41 u. Gewehr 43
0 Other German rifles
0 Captured rifles
4,287 MG 34
1,063 MG 42
103 Other German MG
360 Captured MG
Actually the Tropenbluse (jacket) should be closed and the sleeves long, not rolled up. The Heeresgruppe A war diary says that day temperatures were exceptionally high, it was cloudy and very humid, the unit commander had probably "ordered summer" because of this.
The commander of the German command in the capital of Crimea issued an order regarding the dress code for tropical uniform. The period for wearing the tropical uniform in this area was ordered between May 1, 1943 and September 30, 1943. If the soldiers were given holiday or ordered to another location during this period, they had to wear their tropical uniform or their field gray uniform, they were not allowed to mix them.
Now back to the topic of DAK, Africa and VZ24 rifles. I have looked into the documents of the High Command of the Wehrmacht and for the DAK here is a small excerpt with the following losses:
64,348 Karabiner 98k
1,189 Karabiner 98k m. Zf. (K98k with scope)
498 Gewehr 41 u. Gewehr 43
0 Other German rifles
0 Captured rifles
4,287 MG 34
1,063 MG 42
103 Other German MG
360 Captured MG
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
You are very welcome!
It's good you mention it. You have to be careful with the Bundesarchiv dating on pics, often the date is not correct.
The photographer took more photos in this area and after the war he worked for a newspaper in a city near me. A family member served in this area at the same time and I heard some stories when he talked to my grandfather, his experiences were horrific.
That's probably Italy. I note that looks to be an Italian Carcano sling on it. Could it be a Yugo M.24? Soutache removal after 1942 was maybe so and maybe not, particularly maybe not if he had not changed units. Particularly if that is a feldpolizei. Note that he only has one cartridge pouch, which is consistent with a rear area.
pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
Just my swag, that soutache looks pretty dark, I'd say maybe Pioneer...looks like it might be black...
Belt and Y's are leather, not web, not that necessarily means anything...just an observation.
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
Ortskommandantur I / 853 Simferopol, May 5, 1943
Commandant order No. 154
1. Dress code for tropical clothing.
With immediate effect, the following dress code for tropical clothing is announced:
Tropical field blouse,
Tropical shirt with necktie,
Boot pants with boots
or lace-up shoes with wrap-around gaiters
or lace-up shoes with knee socks,
Tropical cap (Mountain cap),
strapped on.
In particularly warm weather, the unit leader can order:
Short (short pants),
Knee socks long (not rolled up),
Lace-up shoes,
Tropical shirt with closed collar, without necktie,
with tropical shirt long sleeve (not rolled up).
The tropical shirt must be provided with appropriate rank insignia.
Strapped on.
The order applies to all units which have full tropical equipment.