German Mauser 98, unknown

bert22

Member
I have acquired an old German Mauser 98, and hoping to get more information and opinions on it.
Stripped rifle down and cleaned it, and while apart took pictures of all markings. The serial number is 7, and appears everywhere it is supposed to. Will post pics.
And it is a sporter.
So far my research has led me to believe it was made at Erfurt. I believe that 2 visible marks are their stamp. It also appears on the aft of the bolt handle, but basically indistinguishable. Have read that they started serial number from 1-9999 , and then started again with a suffix. Also read of court case about 2 senior inspection officers lightly stamping rejection mark on actions, guns and parts and sold as scrap. Gun smith possed as scrap metal guy, grocer was the transport, and so on. Anyway, it is my belief that it came out of Erfurt. Maybe you guys can shed some light on it , and either confirm or deny. I am happy to get anyone's take on it.
 
The crown/n proof and the St.M.G. make me lean commercial. That said, it's been pretty well scrubbed so I can't rule out a military rifle that was converted.

My take is it's an inter-war commercial rifle, either made as is or built up off of surplus military parts. The engraving work isn't very high quality, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Either way the proofing on the side is pre-WW2. I think Crown/N started in the early 1900s, but don't quote me on that. I'm far from an expert on the commercial side of things (or much to be honest) so hopefully someone who really knows that stuff will come along.
 
The firing pin has what looks to be both the gun's SN and an older SN on it along with an inspection mark, so I'm leaning more and more towards military parts that were refurbed into a sporting rifle between the wars.
 
Appreciate your thoughts on it Cyrano4747.
Hopefully someone can identify exactly which variation of the 98 it is.
I have been doing as much online research as I can, and my opinion is that it was produced in the first batch at Erfurt 1915. By all the markings found on it and matching numbers on everything??? I read a couple articles about senior inspection officers, gun smith and grocer, probably more people as well that were stealing out of the factory. Gun smith possed as scrap metal buyer, grocer was transport, ect. The inspection officers would very lightly stamp a non acceptance mark , which was easily removed later and would be put in scrap. Just another plausable thing??
Appearntly there were court proceedings and charges.
All very interesting history.
Thanks
 
I seriously doubt it would be anything as enticing as that. It's fun to think about, but the reality is that after WW1 Europe was awash in military arms and there was a pretty sizable cottage industry in making military guns into sporting guns for some quick cash. I believe the Danzig arsenal in particular turned to this to generate cash when they became a Free City.
 
Yes, very interesting finding out new things from history. I have learned more about war time recently by trying to investigate the Mauser.
Do you have any input on all the other stamped marks?
 
All the ones I can see are just the run of the mill process stamps that get added when the rifle is being built. The meaning of most of them has been lost to time, but basically they were thwacked on in a specific, unobtrusive position (like the bottom of the receiver) when a specific milling step was done or it gauged OK for moving onto the next assembly process or it was polished in preparation for another operation etc. I don't think those marks have ever been successfully trended in any meaningful way. I try to snap pics of them when I work on my guns just in case I am ever able to spot a pattern between them, but I never have. Then again, my collection is also much smaller than many here. I'd be very curious to see how, for example, a 1916 Oberndorf would stack up to a 1917 Oberndorf or a 1916 Spandau in that regard.

I will say that the position of the "7" you see repeated on a lot of the parts is extremely non-standard. I don't think I've ever seen a SN stamped on the underside of a bolt root, for example, and I've certainly never seen one on the inside of that gutter in the inside of the trigger guard or the back side of the mag floorplate. It's also on the wrong spot on the safety and missing from a bunch of parts that would normally have it. Military SNs had fairly standardized placement and were both visible and external (except for parts that ended up on the inside of the gun after assembly, e.g. trigger components and the firing pin). Plus as I mentioned before the apparent double serial on the firing pin.

But, you also have what look to be inspectors stamps on the cocking piece and the firing pin, which I don't think you would expect on a purpose built commercial gun.

The more I mull it over the more I keep coming back to this being scrubbed in an organized fashion by someone who was converting a bunch of military weapons to commercial. Slapping a unique number on the parts in an unobtrusive spot makes sense if you're doing this with a bunch of guns and want to make sure that parts that either came together or that you know work together stay together. That would also explain the oddities like the apparent inspection marks on a few parts or the double SN on the firing pin, a part buried far enough inside that they might not have bothered scrubbing it.

Really the only thing I can tell you for sure is that it was commercially proofed in Germany before 1939 and after ~1900 or so (whenever the crown/N proof was introduced, can't find it in my notes right now) and that it was proofed for jacketed bullets (that's what the St.m.G. means).

I'm strongly leaning towards it being built up between the wars out of either surplus parts (lots of factories had stuff left over when production shut down after the war) or a whole gun or guns that were broken down for the process. There was a booming industry in that in the inter-war period as gun companies needed something to do and there were a lot of military arms to dispose of. Gew98s converted to crappy bolt action shot guns used to be a thing, for example.

Some places did this in a more organized fashion than others. Mauser Oberndorf kept making sporting arms between WW1 and WW2, same as they had for decades before that. The old imperial arsenal at Danzig moved over to commercial arms for a while as well, even though they had been a government arsenal before Danzig became independent. The arsenal at Erfurt did as well, but the work tended to be much higher quality than what I'm seeing here. Engraving especially. But you also had a cottage industry of small firearms manufacturers and gunsmiths all across Germany - especially in SE Germany - and all those people needed to put food on the table too.

That's my current best guess. I'll defer to anyone who knows better.


edit: a lot of the work fairly screams small time gunsmith too. In particular I'm looking at the engraving on the receiver, the buttplate, and the checkering on the bolt handle. Whether that was how the gun was assembled or if it was done later (either in Germany or the US) I don't know.
 
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Are there any markings on the barrel or inside the stock, in the barrel channel area? Looking at some of the pictures the finish on the barrel looks like a bad match for the receiver and the bolt parts. Part of the issue here is that the gun may have been substantially altered in the states. Say an inter-war commercial rifle made in the 20s in Germany ,brought to the US at some point, and then a small gunsmith worked it over - engraving, potentially a new barrel, maybe did something with the stock, etc.

Everything I've said so far really only speaks to the metal bits that you've photographed.

edit: The screws in the side-wall also don't look period to me. That's not how your typical commercial rifle is going to have a scope mounted in the 20s. Between that and the quality of the engraving I'd be pretty willing to bet that whatever its original form when it was proofed as described above someone got their hands on it and did some alterations down the road.
 
Great explanation, thank you for taking the time.
And no markings on barrel at all, appears much newer and most likely was changed.
As far as inside the stock, all that was visible was the number 27 written in pencil. Thinking it was a measurement for barrel or stock ( just a guess). Will have to resize pic. Will post it shortly.
I have been doing tons of reading on the old mausers lately, but I am very new to collecting a few. Have this one, Husqvarna m38 and 2 Lee Enfield no4 mk1.
Thanks again
 
Well at the very least I'll say the "27" was probably written by a continental European so that's a point in favor of the stock being original to the gun. If the rebarreling had been done over there and later than the majority of the work we're looking at I'd expect it to have been re-proofed. They're a lot stricter about that, especially in Germany.
 
Appreciate all your help Cyrano4747 , and I have the bug now to keep researching on Mausers , mainly war time. I sure it might bring up other parts of the war history as well.
 
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