Oberndorf target rifles

As close as I can come to this subject is I had a pair of stamps, like Jim shows, in my collection as a kid.
Great thread guys. Thanks very much for showing. A learning experience for me.

I have serial number 20604. Trying to figure out the history and the value. I don't understand the duffle bag cut and how to tell if mine has been cut.

rvia100 said:

I have serial number 20604. Trying to figure out the history and the value. I don't understand the duffle bag cut and how to tell if mine has been cut.

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A "duffel cut" is a cut made on the stock to make it shorter with the action removed. Basically, returning GI's had to fit these things in their duffel bags, and the stock was usually just a bit too long. So you pull the action out of the wood, cut the wood down until it fits, and then reassemble back home. Most of the time the cut was made between the barrel bands, although once in a blue moon you'll find something kind of bizarre like one that goes through the stock or even the pistol grip or mag well area.

It's pretty easy to tell if it has been cut. Is the stock in one piece or two? Is there a visible repair where the cut was made?

Here's one I'm working on right now. It's a WW1 Gew98 rather than a later gun, but the basic idea is the same.



I have no idea why the cut piece looks so much darker in that pic. Here's another shot to show what they look like together.

rvia100 said:

I have serial number 20604. Trying to figure out the history and the value. I don't understand the duffle bag cut and how to tell if mine has been cut.

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You’ll need to post more info and some pictures for us to give a worthwhile response.

I'm just starting the journey of trying to figure this out. Thanks for all the help in advance.
Here are pictures of the joint under the shoulder strap holder.



I'm not sure, but it would seem to me there was a joint there when it was manufactured. Otherwise, I'm not sure how it would all go together. Mine doesn't look shaved down as the other pictures do, but again I'm new to this world.

I would think non-duffle cut examples are more collectable.

On further inspection, I think I understand how it comes apart now and originally there was no cut under the barrel strap. So it's a pretty clean duffle cut, but still a duffle cut. How would I determine the value of this piece?

rvia100 said:

On further inspection, I think I understand how it comes apart now and originally there was no cut under the barrel strap. So it's a pretty clean duffle cut, but still a duffle cut. How would I determine the value of this piece?

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Yup, that's a duffel cut.

Value is going to depend on a whole host of things. Originality of the finish, whether the parts match on the gun, over-all condition, etc.

As mentioned up-thread, pictures help a lot. It's impossible to say anything meaningful about the gun without a full set of pics.

As far as ammo goes , it is not hard to make ammo for them . There are several versions of that cartridge , with different rim sizes , bullets sizes . Most of the post WWI rifle I have loaded for can use cases formed from 30/30 . The rims will work as will .321 dia 32 Win special bullets . And you can get the dies .

ernie8 said:

As far as ammo goes , it is not hard to make ammo for them . There are several versions of that cartridge , with different rim sizes , bullets sizes . Most of the post WWI rifle I have loaded for can use cases formed from 30/30 . The rims will work as will .321 dia 32 Win special bullets . And you can get the dies .

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In my experience the rims can be a bit twitchy when doing the 30-30 conversion. There was a lot of variation in the bolt faces in particular. I've found it is often necessary to turn the rim down just a tich, and sometimes necessary to thin it a bit as well. It's a bit annoying, but not too bad if you're patient. You can do it chucking the casing onto an electric drill and then just using a file to modify it as it rotates.

As a bonus, once you've made the brass it lasts essentially forever. 8.15x46r isn't exactly a punishing round and you can create some real super-lightweight loads that feel like nothing out of a full rifle. I've got a favored powder puff load that uses H110 and cheap lead bullets.

Here are some pictures. Thoughts?

Couple more.

Certainly not perfect condition, but good for a now almost 90 year old rifle.
Maybe I should have started a new thread instead of hijacking this one.

I wondered based on the serial number if it would be a TSTV. A very nice example of a relatively rare Mauser target rifle.

I would recommend taking a closer look at the bolt since it is not matching numbers. It may be the correct type, it may not be. If you plan to shoot it, I would recommend taking a look.

The TSTV rifles in short were a very small contract made of about 1000 rifles for a shooting club. There is further discussion at the beginning of this thread.

Cyrano4747 said:

In my experience the rims can be a bit twitchy when doing the 30-30 conversion. There was a lot of variation in the bolt faces in particular. I've found it is often necessary to turn the rim down just a tich, and sometimes necessary to thin it a bit as well. It's a bit annoying, but not too bad if you're patient. You can do it chucking the casing onto an electric drill and then just using a file to modify it as it rotates.

As a bonus, once you've made the brass it lasts essentially forever. 8.15x46r isn't exactly a punishing round and you can create some real super-lightweight loads that feel like nothing out of a full rifle. I've got a favored powder puff load that uses H110 and cheap lead bullets.

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Yes as I said , they can be different . I have made ammo for several , one took 30/30 as is , some did need a tich here and there as you stated . But doable with easy to get components . It is the early rifles that are much harder to make cases for and some even need heeled bullets .

TSTV was what got me to this thread. So you are saying that the 0588 on the bolt should match the 20604 on the barrel. This means I don't have the original bolt matched to the original barrel. I have no desire to fire the rifle. Thought it was cool that my family had ammo from Europe for it. Seems odd that they were able to keep all this together for over 70 years and it's the wrong bolt. Almost like the bolt was switched by the original owner. Who knows, the possibilities are endless. I guess I need to get it appraised somewhere and decide if I want to sell it or not.

rvia100 said:

TSTV was what got me to this thread. So you are saying that the 0588 on the bolt should match the 20604 on the barrel. This means I don't have the original bolt matched to the original barrel. I have no desire to fire the rifle. Thought it was cool that my family had ammo from Europe for it. Seems odd that they were able to keep all this together for over 70 years and it's the wrong bolt. Almost like the bolt was switched by the original owner. Who knows, the possibilities are endless. I guess I need to get it appraised somewhere and decide if I want to sell it or not.

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Yes, the bolt should match the rest of the rifle. All numbered parts should be 0604 or 04.

Mis matched bolts in old Mauser's is quite common. It could have happened in 1939 or 1940 at a match, it could have happened in 1945 when a GI grabbed it, it could have happened states side. I would lean towards it having happened while at the club, because the bolt appears to be have the correct commercial proofs. The real question is if the bolt face and extractor are correct for the type of rifle.

No need to pay someone to appraise the gun. We can give you some ball park numbers. Typically these TSTV fall into two ranges. Those that sell, and those that don't.
You will see many listed, like the one at simpsons for $4000, that will be there until they lower the price. There are several other out there for the $3k-$4k range. These are "fishing" prices, looking for a sucker with too much money and too little time.
I have about a dozen "unsold" examples, prices ranging from $2200 to $4k, with a 100% mint rifle matching numbers bringing $1600 and NOT selling due to reserve(2018). Pre 98 supposedly did sell one for $4k, but I don't believe much of anything they say.

Rarer than the TSTV are the solid left wall Einheitsgewehr, which all matching w/ diopter usually bring less than $4k. $4k-5k will buy an Ultra rare, solid receiver, with original diopter model.

So, most seem to sell at sub $2k. I have seen many NOT sell for over $2k. For me personally, this would be a $1000-$1500 rifle. With the duffle cut and mis match bolt probably on the lower end. My own TSTV is not duffle cut, but a stock mismatch, that I paid $700 for.

Food for thought, and by no means definitive.

Thanks Fal! Value on anything depends on who is buying. From what I looked through, $1000 seems to be the right range.

Very cool rifles and informative thread. I didn’t know about these.