KARAB 98B - What do I Have?

Mauser;

So, I am new to the Mauser scene, could use some help from the Mauser experts, and aficionado’s on this forum, as I recently acquired this interesting Mauser Rifle, with no markings on the top of the receiver at the barrel where others normally are and have no clue as to when/what year/where this particular rifle was made… I have done some looking around, and found one that sold at auction very, very similar, and as far as I can tell from what I have seen in Google land, this seems to be a German made Simson-Suhl Mauser made somewhere between 1924-1931, is this correct?

It has the “S” marking on the right side of the receiver, although mine has a different type of "S" (Not as squared off, as the others I have seen?), as well as some other Eagles, and there are Eagles over the number 6 all over it. The serial numbers all match on every part that I can find on it, and the stock looks to be modified to such extent there are virtually no remnants of any symbols/numbers on it to determine if it is the original stock, that was modified/sporterized, or if it was from another rifle. My Father, who served in the Army during Vietnam, had left this to me, and I am not sure where/when he acquired it, but I do know my Grandfather was in the Navy during WWII, so anything is possible. The stock is unlike the usual sporterized/aftermarket ones I have seen, and looks more like a home build, or custom modification, that is actually quite nice, as these go. I would like to find out what year this actually was made in, and as much as possible about it, so I am posting a few photo’s with this post. Would appreciate any expertise/information given, as I have yet to decide what I would like to do with it. I also would like to see if I could locate the proper stock/configuration for its original manufacture date if possible. Let the investigations begin, and thanks again for any information anyone can contribute...

I also needed to add this, said too big of a file for some of the others before?

It's a Simson Kar98b that was unfortunately sporterized. It's extra unfortunate because the bolt matches. Was the barrel cut? Factory barrels should be 30"

Here's a few examples of how they should look without the modification yours has had..

Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b - 8469b - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/kar98b-8469-b-block.55210/
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b - 8818b - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/karab-98b.29135/#post-214702
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b 5790c Depot Rework- https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/simson-c-block-karab-98b-with-depot-work.52109/
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b 4962d - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/simson-kar98b-came-home-from-the-2022-sos-show.50076/
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b 7792e - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/new-simson-karab98b.38255/
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b 2000f - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/kar98b.4
6208/

chrisftk said:

It's a Simson Kar98b that was unfortunately sporterized. It's extra unfortunate because the bolt matches. Was the barrel cut? Factory barrels should be 30"

Here's a few examples of how they should look without the modification yours has had..

Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b - 8469b - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/kar98b-8469-b-block.55210/
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b - 8818b - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/karab-98b.29135/#post-214702
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b 5790c Depot Rework- https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/simson-c-block-karab-98b-with-depot-work.52109/
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b 4962d - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/simson-kar98b-came-home-from-the-2022-sos-show.50076/
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b 7792e - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/new-simson-karab98b.38255/
Blank Receiver Simson Karab98b 2000f - https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/kar98b.4
6208/

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Thanks for the input, the barrel has not been cut, the only thing not original, or modified that I can tell is the stock, and the 2 lock screws were missing when I got it, so I purchased 2 un-issued screws to lock the trigger guard screws. The rest even down to the screw #s match.
Would really like to know what year this was made if possible?
PS; The original butt-plate is gone, and there was a Plastic Remington plate on it currently.
PPS. Tried to add some more pictures of the stock overall, but says file to big.

KARAB 98B Newbee said:

Would really like to know what year this was made if possible?

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Late 20s-- probably later 1928, maybe '29 (best guess). 1924 was the first year of production and they stopped dating them at some point in 1926.

Stock will be a challenge to find an original, but they do pop up. They're typically feeding frenzies when they do. I've had two loose stocks over many years of collecting. Unfortunately, I no longer have either of them. My advice would be to keep looking on all the usual sites (eBay, etc..) It will take a lot of patience but one will pop up eventually. You can also sometimes find one on an imported mixmaster rifle if you look carefully.

Proper stock has a takedown ferrule, finger grooves, bolt cutout and a side mounted sling cutout like a K98K. I'd encourage you to look at the reference examples I shared a couple posts ago to get an idea.

Thankfully, that barrel not being cut and the handguard retaining lip being intact will allow this one to be restorable. Years on these aren't exact but the receiver side rail switched to "Mod. 98" in 1930 with the f block for the Kar98b. It looks like the suffix puts yours as an "e" block so I'd guess around 1928-1929. If you wish to restore this one, it will be a difficult one as I have learned with mine but this one looks like a righteous one and a matching bolt would make it a worthy save. The stock will be the hardest part but there is a source for reproduction stocks out there if you don't mind waiting for a while.

chrisftk said:

Late 20s-- probably later 1928, maybe '29 (best guess). 1924 was the first year of production and they stopped dating them at some point in 1926.

Stock will be a challenge to find an original, but they do pop up. They're typically feeding frenzies when they do. I've had two loose stocks over many years of collecting. Unfortunately, I no longer have either of them. My advice would be to keep looking on all the usual sites (eBay, etc..) It will take a lot of patience but one will pop up eventually. You can also sometimes find one on an imported mixmaster rifle if you look carefully.

Proper stock has a takedown ferrule, finger grooves, bolt cutout and a side mounted sling cutout like a K98K. I'd encourage you to look at the reference examples I shared a couple posts ago to get an idea.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the links earlier, I downloaded some photos of the stocks to research later, as I am interested in a restoration. The Gun checked out good mechanically, and I did take it for a 6 round range run with fingers crossed, and no Issues. It ran like a finely tuned machine, so I am very happy to have it. This being my first Mauser, I may later chose to sell it (Sacrilege, I know), but only because I know an Aficionado would give it a good home should I do so. Still, I am thinking a restoration first would be just the right thing to do. Thanks for narrowing the year span down, and the stock picture links, that will help alot as I go along.

AN-94 said:

Thankfully, that barrel not being cut and the handguard retaining lip being intact will allow this one to be restorable. Years on these aren't exact but the receiver side rail switched to "Mod. 98" in 1930 with the f block for the Kar98b. It looks like the suffix puts yours as an "e" block so I'd guess around 1928-1929. If you wish to restore this one, it will be a difficult one as I have learned with mine but this one looks like a righteous one and a matching bolt would make it a worthy save. The stock will be the hardest part but there is a source for reproduction stocks out there if you don't mind waiting for a while.

Click to expand...

Thanks, and I would be happy for any period correct sources for original, or reproduction stocks, butt-plates, muzzle covers, etc,,, you could provide. I will be checking back here periodically to see what pops up, thanks again.
PS, any idea what the value on this might be if properly restored? I am curios, and still deciding the route I want to take with it, so any Guesstimation is appreciated.

KARAB 98B Newbee said:

Thanks, and I would be happy for any period correct sources for original, or reproduction stocks, butt-plates, muzzle covers, etc,,, you could provide. I will be checking back here periodically to see what pops up, thanks again.
PS, any idea what the value on this might be if properly restored? I am curios, and still deciding the route I want to take with it, so any Guesstimation is appreciated.

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That's a hard one to guesstimate, I'd reckon it might be around $1000-$1500 or so once it's all put together but others would probably know better than I do. As for getting parts, it looks like you'd need all of the stock hardware along with the stock and handguard. Weimar-era parts are quite difficult to find so you'll most likely need to browse auctions like ebay or put out an WTB ad on the trader. Like Chris said, original stocks are quite scarce. For reproduction, I used Fox Military out of Poland though it took 22 months to receive mine. He offered me a choice between 2 stocks when it came time to pay for mine so you might be able to skip the wait.

Not a common rifle (range in particular), your rifle extends this pattern nearly 100 rifles (which is a good jump for an early 98b); I call these type II (type II after the droping of dates, type I are far scarcer...). Too bad the stock, damn sorry to see this on a probable bolt matcher (which is rare enough).

What would be incredibly helpful is seeing the barrel code (under the stock), the rear sight acceptance pattern and most of all the bolt component acceptance. This sub-variation (range) is not as rare as other blocks, but early production is rare with bolt and barrel coding/acceptance patterns.

AN-94 said:

That's a hard one to guesstimate, I'd reckon it might be around $1000-$1500 or so once it's all put together but others would probably know better than I do. As for getting parts, it looks like you'd need all of the stock hardware along with the stock and handguard. Weimar-era parts are quite difficult to find so you'll most likely need to browse auctions like ebay or put out an WTB ad on the trader. Like Chris said, original stocks are quite scarce. For reproduction, I used Fox Military out of Poland though it took 22 months to receive mine. He offered me a choice between 2 stocks when it came time to pay for mine so you might be able to skip the wait.

https://www.fox-military.com/en/stock.php?id_produkt=55

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Any issues regarding importation? I'm thinking of grabbing one of his stocks so I can shoot my DUV 42 Gustloff guilty free. How was his English btw? Figured Google translate would be absolutely required but just figured I'd ask lol

Jdt said:

Any issues regarding importation? I'm thinking of grabbing one of his stocks so I can shoot my DUV 42 Gustloff guilty free. How was his English btw? Figured Google translate would be absolutely required but just figured I'd ask lol

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I had no issues and his English was fine. Action was pretty much drop in though it was a little tight. I still need to see how it fits when I put the recoil lug in but very impressed with it overall.

AN-94 said:

I had no issues and his English was fine. Action was pretty much drop in though it was a little tight. I still need to see how it fits when I put the recoil lug in but very impressed with it overall.

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Gotcha, looks like I'm getting one of his stocks.

AN-94 said:

That's a hard one to guesstimate, I'd reckon it might be around $1000-$1500 or so once it's all put together but others would probably know better than I do. As for getting parts, it looks like you'd need all of the stock hardware along with the stock and handguard. Weimar-era parts are quite difficult to find so you'll most likely need to browse auctions like ebay or put out an WTB ad on the trader. Like Chris said, original stocks are quite scarce. For reproduction, I used Fox Military out of Poland though it took 22 months to receive mine. He offered me a choice between 2 stocks when it came time to pay for mine so you might be able to skip the wait.

https://www.fox-military.com/en/stock.php?id_produkt=55

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link and info.

Loewe said:

Not a common rifle (range in particular), your rifle extends this pattern nearly 100 rifles (which is a good jump for an early 98b); I call these type II (type II after the droping of dates, type I are far scarcer...). Too bad the stock, damn sorry to see this on a probable bolt matcher (which is rare enough).

What would be incredibly helpful is seeing the barrel code (under the stock), the rear sight acceptance pattern and most of all the bolt component acceptance. This sub-variation (range) is not as rare as other blocks, but early production is rare with bolt and barrel coding/acceptance patterns.

Click to expand...

Don't know what an acceptance pattern is, but I will try to get some more photo's posted within the next couple days to give more details. I had a couple other pic's but the site said they were too large, and I have yet to take photos of the receiver/barrel removed from the stock so I will be sure to get them up asap, thanks for the input, and look forward to more after I get those pictures up, thanks again.

Acceptance is the small stamps you see on the various parts, some parts may have more than one (different as well), they represent "acceptance" of work or assembly,each eagle/number represent an inspector that teams work under. That is rarely important though... what is important is changes in inspector location during production and changes. Imperial era use letters, the Republic the start of numbers and that pattern can roughly "date" work, especially important from 1926-1933 when acceptance is one of the keys to dating. Barrel codes are just important in this regard.

*** much "guesstimation" also depends on developing patterns across production lines, for instance Simson made 98b, P08 and MG, Wuk made and dated bayonets, cross comparisons of trends also can prove useful in our guesses; coupled with 1920s German history, the disarmament efforts (IAMCC work from a few rare books, negotiations during 1927, etc all offers clue to cobble theories together, - not exactly a fact based science but I would say it is as fact based as global warming "science" is which billions are wasted upon...)

Here are some more pictures with the stock removed, and there are several marking under it, I also noticed on the stock there was what earlier looked like a smudge, but in the right light revealed what appears to be an Eagle, with an "N" next to it, but there are no other marks on it visible, and there are several tiny Eagle 6 markings all over, one set of three in a triangular formation, not sure if these photos captured everything needed, but here goes.

Loewe said:

Acceptance is the small stamps you see on the various parts, some parts may have more than one (different as well), they represent "acceptance" of work or assembly,each eagle/number represent an inspector that teams work under. That is rarely important though... what is important is changes in inspector location during production and changes. Imperial era use letters, the Republic the start of numbers and that pattern can roughly "date" work, especially important from 1926-1933 when acceptance is one of the keys to dating. Barrel codes are just important in this regard.

*** much "guesstimation" also depends on developing patterns across production lines, for instance Simson made 98b, P08 and MG, Wuk made and dated bayonets, cross comparisons of trends also can prove useful in our guesses; coupled with 1920s German history, the disarmament efforts (IAMCC work from a few rare books, negotiations during 1927, etc all offers clue to cobble theories together, - not exactly a fact based science but I would say it is as fact based as global warming "science" is which billions are wasted upon...)

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I just posted more pictures.

Here are also some of the pictures that were too large, reformatted to fit. Hope these shed as much light as possible on what I have, and thanks to everyone for your input, it's greatly appreciated...

KARAB 98B Newbee said:

Here are also some of the pictures that were too large, reformatted to fit. Hope these shed as much light as possible on what I have, and thanks to everyone for your input, it's greatly appreciated...

Click to expand...

Thanks for coming here and sharing it! We all look forward to the day it gets a nice and correct stock set, repro or not. if ya don't have wood working tools I'd recommend sending it off to a gunsmith who can fit the action to the new stock for you. There is also a Mauser gunsmithing book available as well if ya want a challenge (unless ya done this before lol)