Experimental Mauser 1902 Gew98 Serial 10 (or 1?) in 6mm Mauser Caliber

First of all, I promise this to be my last thread for today, anyway had taken me way too much time to take and then rework all these pictures. But this one is very important to document, also for the future, and therefore I decided to go for almost every stamp that I can find that I think of to be important.

So this is a Gew98 style rifle, made by Mauser in 1902, as visible on the receiver ring. The rifle does not have the Gew98 designation on the side wall, for being different. The caliber is 6mm Mauser (6x58mm), so same caliber as the experimental Mauser 1896 rifle serial number 7 that I have posted in here --> https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/w...erndorf-a-n-1896-rifle-serial-number-7.59877/ .

At the very beginning, to have it mentioned too: this rifle here is serial number 10 on the receiver and the bolt. Every other part of the rifle has the serial number 1 stamped on it only. And after I have cleaned it today and when looking at the serial 10 very closeup I feel that this rifle originally may have been serial number 1 on all parts (so the 1 not just being an assembly number), someone just added the 0 to some of the parts - for whatever reason. Since it is former Mauser Factory collection as well as having been returned by the French (see the stamp to the stock) maybe Jon - who is aware of this rifle already - can check the French list with which serial they have listed it? Could well had been that the 0 was added at a much ealier point, but maybe also as late as with Mauser post WWII.

Also, this rifle has had a damage. The spring holding the front barrel band was broken off, and the front barrel band was missing. I replaced the broken spring, and for the meantime put a later H style front barrel band without the hook on the rifle that doesn't have any serial on it. I would need a Gew98 style with the hook. So this is NOT original to the rifle!

The particular rifle on this thread has quite a lot of differences, therefore to make it easier for me just a listing of some of the details that I'd want to point out:
- tangent rear sight different due to different caliber I assume
- various acceptance stamps (military?) on the small parts
- note the barrel does NOT have any steps! (edit, to be precise, refering to the barrel contour)
- there once was a sticker to the bottom of the stock, on purpose didn't clean off the rest of the sticker - whatever it may had been
- there even is an acceptance stamp to the top of the handguard and front of the front sight
- there are only two very small stock stamps behind the trigger guard. The stock does not have any external serial number
- the serial of the stock is hand written with a pencil to the barrel channel with 1, and additionally the 1 is stamped to the area that is covered by the handguard - handguard too has serial 1 inside
- the stock on the left side has the "French Return Number", from when the French gave Mauser back the factory collection of rifles
- behind the buttplate I was able to locate a stamp depicting a crown with a scripted A under it - does anyone have an idea on who used this stamp? A friend had suggested maybe Sachsen, Friedrich August (der Starke)
- the bayonet lug is unique for the inside being cut to the wood, see pictures
- magazine guard, they even bothered to stamp the flat spring with an acceptance stamp
- there is something in front of the trigger that is "just" spring loaded putting pressure forward. Therefore magazine guard is also cut for this. I assume maybe for the 6x58mm round in a 8x57 magazine?
- the barrel also has the serial/assembly number (whatever it may now be) 1 stamped, just behind the woodline - it is tough to make out since it is located in about the only rust pitting the rifle has
- the barrel also has a (commercial?) firing proof, I assume 5,88mm / 6,18mm refers to fields and lands?
- firing pin is unique shaped
- bolt is very different - it doesn't have the typical Mauser super long extractor, but one that is short and integrated to the bolt body
- bolt head is also recess cut for the 6mm round

Second set of pictures.

Final and last set of pictures that I had taken by now.

Absolutely fantastic rifle! Very interesting features as well. Firing pin is like the Siamese rifles, I haven’t confirmed but plan to this year, that the Oberndorf Mauser rifles built for Siam have this feature.

The bolt is very interesting, fixed rotating extractor like the 1889-1891. Surprising this late in the game that such a design would be incorporated. This may be because of the recessed bolt face to allow full case head support.

The trigger. . . . Thing . . . . Is most interesting. Will look at the pictures more to try and determine what that might be for? No idea!

Fantastic rifle, thanks for sharing!

A few other interesting notes.

300m sight base, the range along with the sight itself is interesting as it is different as you mentioned from the standard.
Early style non chamfered bayonet lug - this is the 1898 - 1902 design.
The stock A marking is interesting, as I have a stock with the exact same marking. However it is otherwise devoid of markings. It is on a Mauser TSTV which, I do not believe it to be original to.
The Siamese firing pin is clocked 90* from standard, along with the lobed design, which begs the question if they were using up left over components for a small batch of test rifles.
Does the follower have any markings on it? I cannot reason out a purpose for the dovetail part mating into the magazine box, with no apparent connection to the follower.

Very interesting variant, utilizing left over Siamese components, with a magazine and bolt design that I have not seen before! Very cool.

I'll ask Jon to comment further, the bolt design really has me intrigued as to the purpose of this rifle and who the potential customer would be.

It's definitely a damn cool test rifle. Thanks for posting in such detail.

Fal Grunt said:

300m sight base, the range along with the sight itself is interesting as it is different as you mentioned from the standard.

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Yeah I was really liking that aspect of it. Certainly very unique!

Very cool piece!

That is absolutely a stunning rifle. I always love looking at your photos because your photography is amazing. I always find experimental and test rifles fascinating to look. Makes you kind of wonder if the imperial ordinance department looked at this rifle.
The rear sight is kind of interesting to me. I'm almost kind of surprised the rear sight setting is at 300m and not 200m or 100m. Especially by 1902 with the Gew 98 having a rear sight setting of 200m. Anyways awesome looking test rifle.

Attached four macro pictures I took today of the parts that carry the serial number 10. Would appreciate others thoughts as to maybe the 0 having been added to turn serial number 1 into 10.

It's hard to quantify, but looking at your pictures I have to agree that the 0 looks like a later addition. Something about the strike depth and maybe the angle the die was held at. I also find the sizing to look just a little off, like they're two dies from two different sets.

The placing of the 0 also looks off, especially on the bolt parts. Look at the bold sleeve - the 1 is very nicely centered, but the 0 is running off the edge of the piece. If they had intended it to be 10 the whole time I would assume that the whole number would have been better centered and use more of the empty space to the left of the 1.

One thought did occur to me - could the 1 have been used as an assembly number during production, and then the SN changed to 10 when they got to whatever point in the process the gun needed an actual SN? That could explain the apparent later addition of the zeroes and some of the discrepancy in numbering. I don't know what the requirements were for serializing parts at that time, though. Just a early morning coffee thought.

Jon told me there was a 1901 patent for the firing pin, low and behold, there is! At half his age, my memory isn't half as good!

D. R. G. M. 154915 vom 22. Mai 1901.

Schlagbolzensicherung, bestehend aus an dem Schlagbolzenteller angebrachten, in korrespondierende Nuten der Kammer passenden Vorsprüngen.

Aus der Beschreibung.

Den Gegenstand des vorliegenden Gebrauchsmusters bildet eine Sicherheits- einrichtung an Cylinderverschluss-Gewehren zum Zwecke, eine vorzeitige Entzündung der Patrone beim Brechen des Schlagbolzens zu verhüten. Die zu diesem Zwecke getroffene neue Anordnung ist in der beiliegenden Zeichnung veranschaulicht.

Der Schlagbolzen S, welcher im übrigen in beliebiger Weise ausgebildet sein kann, ist an seinem Teller s mit diametral einander gegenüberstehenden Vorsprüngen resp. Erhöhungen s¹ s² versehen, welche ihrer Form nach mit dem Tellers und dem vor demselben befindlichen abgesetzten Teil s³ des Schlagbolzens ein zusammen- hängendes Ganzes bilden, wie dies aus der Zeichnung ersichtlich ist. Entsprechend diesen Ansätzen sind im vorderen Teil der Kammer K unmittelbar vor der den Teil s des Schlagbolzens aufnehmenden Bohrung k³ Nuten k¹k² vorgesehen, in welche die Vorsprünge s's nur dann eintreten können, wenn die Kammer vollständig geschlossen und damit der Verschluss hergestellt ist. Bei geöffnetem Verschluss hingegen, in welchem bekanntlich die Kammer mit Bezug auf ihre Stellung bei hergestelltem Verschluss um 90° gedreht ist, treten die Ansätze s'sª des sich nicht mitdrehenden Schlagbolzens aus den entsprechenden Nuten der Kammerbohrung k heraus und kommen gegen entsprechende feste Widerlagen zu stehen, der Schlagbolzen ist also dadurch auf jeden Fall, selbst wenn derselbe etwa in seinem hinteren Teil gebrochen sein sollte, gegen willkürliche Vorwärtsbewegung bei nicht hergestelltem Verschluss gesichert. Er kann erst dann seine Vorwärtsbewegung ausführen, wenn

die Kammer in die Schliesslage zurückgedreht und damit der Weg für die Ansätze s' sª in die Nuten dhe Shein freigegeben ist. Wesentlich hierbei ist die Anordnung, dass die Ansätze an ihren vorderen Kanten mit bei beiden Ansätzen entgegengesetzt gerichteten Abschrägungen versehen sind, wodurch eine leichte gegenseitige Beweg- lichkeit resp. schrägungen der betreffenden Teile aneinander vorbei erzielt wird.

D. R. G. M. 154915 dated May 22, 1901.

Firing pin safety, consisting of projections attached to the firing pin plate that fit into corresponding grooves in the chamber.

From the description.

The subject of the present utility model is a safety device on cylinder-lock rifles for the purpose of preventing premature ignition of the cartridge when the firing pin breaks. The new arrangement adopted for this purpose is illustrated in the accompanying drawing.

The firing pin S, which can otherwise be designed in any way, is provided on its plate s with diametrically opposed projections or elevations s¹ s², which, in terms of their shape, form a coherent whole with the plate and the offset part s³ of the firing pin located in front of it, as can be seen from the drawing. In accordance with these projections, grooves k¹k² are provided in the front part of the chamber K immediately in front of the bore k³ which accommodates the part s of the firing pin, into which the projections s's can only enter when the chamber is completely closed and the bolt is thus produced. However, when the bolt is open, in which the chamber is known to be rotated by 90° with respect to its position when the bolt is produced, the projections s'sª of the non-rotating firing pin emerge from the corresponding grooves in the chamber bore k and come to rest against corresponding fixed abutments, the firing pin is thus in any case secured against arbitrary forward movement when the bolt is not produced, even if it should be broken in its rear part. It can only carry out its forward movement when

the chamber is rotated back to the closed position and the path for the projections s' sª into the grooves in the shein is cleared. The essential feature here is the arrangement that the attachments are provided with bevels on their front edges that are directed in opposite directions on both attachments, which allows for easy mutual mobility or beveling of the relevant parts past each other.



Schutzanspruch.

Sicherung an Schlagbolzen für Cylinderverschluss-Gewehre, darin bestehend, dass am Schlagbolzen, und zwar vorzugsweise am Teller desselben, einander diametral gegenüberstehende (zweckmässig mit entgegengesetzt gerichteten Abschrägungen ver sehene) Ansätze vorgesehen sind, welche bei hergestelltem Verschluss in entsprechende Nuten der Kammerbohrung treten können, hingegen bei geöffnetem Verschluss aus den Nuten heraus so zu stehen kommen, dass der Schlagbolzen selbst bei Bruch gegen Vorwärtsbewegung gehalten ist.

Claim for protection.

Safety on firing pins for cylinder-lock rifles, consisting in that diametrically opposed lugs (suitably provided with oppositely directed bevels) are provided on the firing pin, preferably on the plate thereof, which can enter into corresponding grooves in the chamber bore when the bolt is made, but which come out of the grooves when the bolt is open in such a way that the firing pin is held against forward movement even if it breaks.



The patent is specifically for the cams present on the front shoulder of the firing pin, however, as you can see, the firing pin has the lobed sliding surface. Incorrectly, in the US, we are taught that this is a safety to cam the bolt closed if fired out of battery, or to prevent the gun firing if out of battery. While both are true, that does not appear to have been the original intention. This patent also shows the update for the larger gas vents which correspond to the cam faces. These cam faces demand a LOT of respect, machining them is no easy feat!

CLG said:

I’m curious about any further thoughts about the trigger “thingy”. It looks like it would function as a magazine cut-off but is there any indication how it would engage or disengage?

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Give me a few 6x58mm rounds and I‘ll find out …

That's a very cool test rifle, thanks for sharing this one! That 6x58 must have been a very fast cartridge along the lines of 6mm Lee Navy and the 5.2x68 Mondragon cartridge, the cam track in the rear sight shows significantly less drop compared to the standard 8x57 cartridge.

@Fal Grunt Jon has seen that rifle too, and if I remember he owns serial 2. Wonder how similar or different his rifle is from that one here. Does he also have the drawings of the 6x58mm round? I think I'm maybe going to ask a friend and see if he can do a few rounds for me.

Indeed he does! Just waiting on me to post them up:

to add to the 6mm rifle report here are some Ballistic reports some direct from Paul Mauser who wrote up the Secret Marked doc. Accuracy was not good if to much wind at play. With new powders Pressures were to high. Regards, Jon

Is there any chance you can get me higher resolution versions of the dimensions and the loading so I can read them? Thanks to you and Jon!

Loading ammo for the rifle would not be very hard . All the needed components are common . You really do not need dimensions if you have the rifle . I could make some ammo in about 20 minutes if I had the rifle in front of me .

to add to 6mm talks here from French lists is the SN 10 rifle 1902. Jon


Happy to send you the images direct, send me a pm with your email address.

Hey Jon, just sent you an e-mail since you anyway have my mail address. Thanks for the page from the French list. Perfectly fits too. The stock of this rifle is stamped 4/1/29A, this gun is the 4th on the list that you show, so once again the "numbers match".