Carl Zeiss
- Thread starter Nord
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A non numbered range dial does not indicate if the scope is WW2 or not .
Mikegermany
Member
Zeiss Zielvier/Zielsechs in the "Leicht" (light) version with alloy tube and rail underneath came up for the civil market around 1935/1936.
Here's an 1937 add
Did any WWII German snipers use the alloy tubed scopes? Everything I've read/heard/studied points at "no" but I guess there could be possible exceptions. Post war aluminum tube dimensions are different than steel but would these pre-war civil scopes have been made to the same diameter as the steel ones? Interested in learning more
Absolut
Senior Member
No German military usage of aluminum scope tubes on sniper rifles. I am aware Mauser did use them for commercial rifles, there are some factory sporters documented with the aluminum tube. For what I remember these used the dovetail on bottom of the scope tube.
Zeiss also had the "Zeiss Rail" for steel scopes. This was soldered to the bottom of the tube and had kind of a gearing. Sometimes it was also to be found combined with a threading to the objective housing for the front scope ring, such as the attached Zielvier.
The Zeiss Rail was also used by the Military, though not German. At least the Russians trialed it, and Estonia purchased 100 Zeiss G.Z. 4x scopes with the Zeiss rail for sniper rifles.
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The only Scope that used Aluminum Parts is the Dialytan BMJ Scopes in 74XXX serial range . Only the front & rear lens housings were made of Aluminum and Tube was Steel .
Here is Link to one such example > https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/my-new-ht.4690/
Here is Link to one such example > https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/my-new-ht.4690/
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Mikegermany
Member
Riflescopes with rail system were developed to use the rail for mounting, nothing else was the purpose of the development. I have never seen an riflescope with aluminum tube without rail.
The Seibert company was the first to realize the idea of rail mounting with the "Jaguar" model in the mid-1930s.
The basic idea behind the rail system was to avoid disassembling the riflescope in order to mount and solder the rings. This was very time-consuming and involved the risk of damaging the lenses or the reticle.
The Zeiss "patent clamp" was some kind of overengineered and not an success, which proves its rarity nowadays. It was not easy to mount on the gun and an special device was required to determine the foot height. Here is an example of this device made by Zeiss and given to the firms that mounts the "Patentklemme".
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Mikegermany
Member
Do you have an source for this?
Absolut
Senior Member
Laidoneri Muuseumi Aastaraamat, 2005:
According to Google Translator:
Attached a picture of one of the Estonian Zeiss G.Z. 4x scope markings. The bow and arrow are the markings of Arsenal Tallinn from the period. The scopes came with the Zeiss Rail on bottom which they then used. Took me very long to find out what the bow and arrow markings are, but also the Estonian War Museum (as well as the author of the above lines) after seeing this agreed to that. So far it is not known though to which rifle they were mounted.
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Absolut
Senior Member
Of course, because you can only clamp an aluminum tube (or glue, as nowadays), but not solder. What you say was clear to me, I had only wanted to say that all Mauser Oberndorf factory sporters that I've seen from this period had mounts that used the dovetail on bottom, without getting into details.
Mikegermany
Member
Ah, i missunderstood the meaning of "Zeiss Rail", my thing was the "Zeiss Patentklemme" mounting system.
Poorly it is not visible in the pic of the "GZ4" how its mounted, even the text says nothing to this. Interesting would be if they used it in combination with the SEM - what was usual in the civilian use.
The term "GZ" is quite interesting, going back to the early prismatic types.
Poorly it is not visible in the pic of the "GZ4" how its mounted, even the text says nothing to this. Interesting would be if they used it in combination with the SEM - what was usual in the civilian use.
The term "GZ" is quite interesting, going back to the early prismatic types.
Absolut
Senior Member
Attached pictures of my other Estonian Zeiss G.Z. 4x scope. This one came with the pictured mount. I think this was the mount they used it with, since there is a six digit rifle number on the front ring. I therefore also suspect it was originally used on P.14 rifles, since those have six digit serial numbers. They must have milled flat the receiver. Maybe one day a rifle will turn up and answer this. Only had taken me a dozen year to find out the Estonian connection of the Bow and Arrow marking on the G.Z. 4x scopes, so maybe we'll just give it some time..
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