In your opinion……

What would you say is the most prized or collectible k98k? It doesn’t have to be the most expensive (unless it is of course) or the most rare like a documented Stalingrad sniper rifle (if that even exists). I would just like to know what you prize per se. or it could be what the community “prizes”.

For example, I have a double eagle sauer 38h delivered to O.K.H. Berlin in April of 1940. I would say that this pistol is one of the most prized ones I have but not the most expensive. I have some Lugers that fall into both categories. I suppose the Luftwaffe Walther PPK might fall into that group as well but the knowledge and history of the 38h makes it special amongst the other collectibles.

Anyway, thanks so much in advance and merry Christmas and/or happy holidays.

I'll let others get into the weeds about what the rarest possible combination of features/code/year/acceptance markings/etc is, but at the end of the day the real answer is probably something with extremely airtight and very unique provenance.

I was lucky enough to get a tour of the non-displayed arms room for the USN museum at the DC Navy Yard a few years back and they had the 1911 that was on the hip of the last officer to evacuate USS Wasp. Pretty good (albeit clearly used/carried) condition but otherwise a bog standard early war USN 1911, but also a pistol that if it were ever to hit the market with the absolutely iron clad provenance that it had would command a truly eye watering price from an advanced 1911 or USGI collector. Absent that provenance it would be a good condition USN pistol but otherwise wouldn't be too much to write home about, but with that it is truly unique and would be worth of being the centerpiece of any collection.

edit: the devil, of course, is in proving those connections.

Cyrano4747 said:

I'll let others get into the weeds about what the rarest possible combination of features/code/year/acceptance markings/etc is, but at the end of the day the real answer is probably something with extremely airtight and very unique provenance.

I was lucky enough to get a tour of the non-displayed arms room for the USN museum at the DC Navy Yard a few years back and they had the 1911 that was on the hip of the last officer to evacuate USS Wasp. Pretty good (albeit clearly used/carried) condition but otherwise a bog standard early war USN 1911, but also a pistol that if it were ever to hit the market with the absolutely iron clad provenance that it had would command a truly eye watering price from an advanced 1911 or USGI collector. Absent that provenance it would be a good condition USN pistol but otherwise wouldn't be too much to write home about, but with that it is truly unique and would be worth of being the centerpiece of any collection.

edit: the devil, of course, is in proving those connections.

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Thank you. That’s cool. Any opinion on K98k’s?

I mean, the only real limit to that hypothetical would be your imagination. There are tons of unique and famous events that, if you could tie a specific weapon to them in an indisputable way, would make the gun have collector value far, far out of proportion to how common it is or condition or the other usual things we agonize over. I'm pretty sure I've seen some rifles that were in guard store rooms at the time of liberation on display at Buchenwald and Dachau, for example, I imagine a rifle with iron clad camp guard connections would command a pretty serious premium.

Another famous example is this pistol:



It's an 1850s era Derringer. Last I saw in good shape those are ~$1500. But that's the one that killed Lincoln, so if it ever did go up for sale it would command a premium, to say the least.

On a much more modest note, here is a 98k high turret sniper that has been pretty firmly attached to the Mauser Oberndorf factory collection:

I think there are two ways of thinking about this. (1) is rifles with strong provenance, and (2) is particular codes/types that are just really difficult to find.

For example, a byf43 (very commonly found code) with direct and strong provenance to say the German defence of Omaha Beach on June 6th 1944 would be a very valuable rifle, regardless of the actual code not being particularly interesting. The problem with provenance is that it’s difficult to prove and is easily lost/forgotten. And for every rifle with good provenance there’s a thousand with bullsh*t stories attached.

When it comes to just really sought after codes/rare types/grail guns etc. thats a personal taste thing, balanced out by production rates vs survivability. While lower production numbers generally means rarer… thats not always the case. Obviously the K98k platform is an example of a weapon that was used heavily in combat, and saw extensive postwar use. Which means that even some codes that had pretty solid production numbers are actually quite challenging to find today as collector pieces. The simple fact is that just many of X code/year did not survive intact.

With that said, a few examples of really sought after codes might be: anything BSW, S/147K, S/42K, 337 1939, bcd4 MG barrel, S/243G…. the list goes on.

My grail piece would be the SSZZA2 sniper that has the original scope and mounts Simpson ltd sold (presumed) in the April of 2023 wanenmacher show someone walked in with that rifle with a price tag of 15K and Simpson bought it and bumped the price up 10K. Haven't seen it anywhere so I presume it sold.
Edit it was a double claw SSZZA2 sniper, I remember the e/135 final proof on the receiver ring and the E/135 in the stock. I got too hold it and I never wanted something sooo bad for my collection

Thanks everyone for your input. Still trying to figure out what I will target as my first k98k. I’d like to have an early ww2 production but just need to learn more. Hopefully the volume 2 books were left by Santa last night. Merry Christmas.

jdreyiv said:

Thanks everyone for your input. Still trying to figure out what I will target as my first k98k. I’d like to have an early ww2 production but just need to learn more. Hopefully the volume 2 books were left by Santa last night. Merry Christmas.

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If you're looking for a first 98k my recommendation is always to start with an RC. They're much more reasonably priced and you side-step all the usual pitfalls of beginning collectors (faked SNs, refinished guns, etc). They make excellent learning pieces, a good place to figure out the ins and outs of 98k ownership and make any dumb early mistakes on a much less valuable rifle. They also hold their value pretty well, so when you decide to move on to a more advanced rifle it won't be hard to sell it and roll that cash forward. They also tend to make good shooters.

My first German rifle was a 1939-dated RC Oberndorf. Digging into that gun and learning about it is what started me down the path to my current collecting proclivities.

I still have that gun. It's my go-to when I'm dialing in a new 8mm mauser load.

jdreyiv said:

What would you say is the most prized or collectible k98k? It doesn’t have to be the most expensive (unless it is of course) or the most rare like a documented Stalingrad sniper rifle (if that even exists). I would just like to know what you prize per se. or it could be what the community “prizes”.

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This is more of a personal taste question than one to which is a general rule. The fact that one weapon may be more expensive to another one could be for various reasons:
1. comparatively rarity (like specific maker, year, etc.) - for example a Singer M1911A1 compared to a Colt M1911A1
2. provenance (like who carried it, where it came from, etc.) - for example the above showed Derringer
3. personal tie (like it was brought back by your (grand)father/carried in WWII by a family relative)
4. market demand (like why does an Italian Carcano rifle does not command the same price as a K98k rifle)
5. (technical) condition (like bore condition, matching, ..) - for example two identical guns where one has a mint and the other one a rusted bore the one with the mint bore will always command a premium

Some people collect items only with particular history on a specific item. Some others only keep items because they have a personal tie to them. Some collect to resemble the field of weapons used in a specific war. Some collect to be able to compare the technical solutions from back then. Others see it as an investment and follow the market demand close.

It seems that you are on the lookout for a K98k rifle and so far not really know what you want to look for. Ask yourself which of the above mentioned aspects could potentially apply to you, or which ones do you not care at all about.

Thanks. The original question was a general one to be honest. I was trying to gauge what people valued in their collecting of K98k’s. When I started collecting guns from WW2 my original intent was to just get one pistol from the US, Germany, and Japan so I got a 1943 Colt 1911A1, a byf 1942 “black widow” Luger, and a Nambu type 14 from December 1941. Then I started to realize how many other interesting pistols from WW2 there are so I bought more and more and more. Most of them are German because they had the most variations of pistols from both a design standpoint as well as occupation guns. But I have Russian, British, Italian, and as mentioned occupied country weapons as well. The collection is quite extensive now but in each case I have tried to get the earliest in the war years I could find and afford as well as some of the rarer ones if that fell into the category as well. The “double eagle” Sauer 38h just happened to and then when I shared the collection over on Luger Forums one of the members asked for more details on it (pictures, s/n) and came back with what his research had found. That was just a bonus bit of information. I have never looked for provenance in any of the guns but that one found me per se.

The pistol collection is essentially complete besides one or two small adds such as a 1943 jhv Femaru and maybe a Union Switch and Signal
1911A1 so now I am moving on to rifles. Since my goal is to get the earliest of the war years I can find and afford I was kind of looking at the 1940 42 Mausers but would consider ones made in 1939. But again, that is what I am thinking about and looking for and now you know why. Sorry to make a short story so long.

Anyway, I was just curious to see what drove other people’s decision when they bought their first, fifth, or thirtieth k98k and why they went that route. Mine is pretty simple I think but I am willing to get complicated as I learn more. Thank you for your thoughts and the knowledge you are imparting. Best, JR

Something to keep in mind is that most collectors have some kind of focus to their collection. Frankly, that's the difference between having an actual collection and just hoarding stuff - having some kind of focus and curating what you have to tell a story or show something. Some people end up with multiple focuses and, arguably, multiple collections - I've got a focus on guns from Mauser Oberndorf, but I also have a more minor focus on representative arms from WW2 in general. Which means that I've got a bunch of Oberndorf rifles, including stuff going back well into the 19th century, but I've also got a Garand and a T99 but - and this is the important part - don't really have a need or desire for more than one Garand or one T99.

Part of it is figuring out what you want and why you want it. "I want the major service rifles of WW2" is a perfectly fine goal, for example, and one that's probably going to push you to the more common makers/variants of 98ks because that fits your needs and you're not fighting the 98k collectors who want (and are willing to pay for) those more uncommon guns.

Note that this can also get into what you exclude from your collection. I won't have any SS stuff in my house, for example. Why? Because screw the SS, that's why.

Cyrano4747 said:

Something to keep in mind is that most collectors have some kind of focus to their collection. Frankly, that's the difference between having an actual collection and just hoarding stuff - having some kind of focus and curating what you have to tell a story or show something. Some people end up with multiple focuses and, arguably, multiple collections - I've got a focus on guns from Mauser Oberndorf, but I also have a more minor focus on representative arms from WW2 in general. Which means that I've got a bunch of Oberndorf rifles, including stuff going back well into the 19th century, but I've also got a Garand and a T99 but - and this is the important part - don't really have a need or desire for more than one Garand or one T99.

Part of it is figuring out what you want and why you want it. "I want the major service rifles of WW2" is a perfectly fine goal, for example, and one that's probably going to push you to the more common makers/variants of 98ks because that fits your needs and you're not fighting the 98k collectors who want (and are willing to pay for) those more uncommon guns.

Note that this can also get into what you exclude from your collection. I won't have any SS stuff in my house, for example. Why? Because screw the SS, that's why.

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Thanks. And I think you have summed it up nicely. I have identified what I am trying to get and it is essentially the quintessential, if you will, service rifle from Germany, the US, and Japan. I already have one from the UK from a long time ago but I need to de-sporterize it. I just need to learn a little more but for the k98k portion it will be from 1939/1940. And I agree with what not to get and that’s anything SS related. I have had plenty of chances with pistols and have chosen not to. The journey continues. Thanks for your help.

jdreyiv said:

Thanks. And I think you have summed it up nicely. I have identified what I am trying to get and it is essentially the quintessential, if you will, service rifle from Germany, the US, and Japan. I already have one from the UK from a long time ago but I need to de-sporterize it. I just need to learn a little more but for the k98k portion it will be from 1939/1940. And I agree with what not to get and that’s anything SS related. I have had plenty of chances with pistols and have chosen not to. The journey continues. Thanks for your help.

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While my 1st was an RC, my first 2 'real' K98ks were Erma/Feima. I like them for a variety of reasons including build quality, their status as a manufacturer and the neat part of tiny marked bits being supplied by others.

I think it has been mentioned here before…the Audie Murphy-captured sniper rifle would be a good K98 to have.