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Unknown scope rail mount on K98K

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BlackCactus

Member
I have a K98K (J.P. Sauer) marked CE 44 that was in a sported wood stock. All other metal pieces are present and modified. It has a scope mount I am not familiar with. This scope mount is marked with the number 17 on the stop and appears to have the same amount of finish wear as the entire rifle. I can see that the receiver was drilled in two places and the mounting hardware holding the mount to the receiver is entirely flush. Any information you can share would be appreciated.

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It appears that You have a Swept Back Sniper rifle . Hard to tell if its an original or not from the pics , You have any other parts like Bolt , Bands and Trigger Guard & Floor Plate and are these parts numbers matching to receiver serial # . Can You post pics of these parts and please show serial numbers .
Can You post pic of barreled actions serial number .

I am attaching a link to another Thread showing and discussing what your rifle would have looked like
www.k98kforum.com

CE 44 SWEPT BACK SNIPER W/specially marked zf4 scope..

After a big foot type sighting in Maryland the elusive swept back Ce44 sniper was bagged and photographed in Connecticut and mass.. When looking at an item like this my thought process is "it's fake till I can prove otherwise or can find no fault in the item" I could not find any. How many were...
www.k98kforum.com www.k98kforum.com
 
It looks promising what you have. Please show the serial number of the action itself. The "considered originals" are all within the low three digit u block and ce44 coded. If yours is in there too, then there are good chances it is original.
 
As previously stated more pics are needed. I will note to everyone that the rail on this example is quite a bit different than the other examples considered original & the Aberdeen example. The rail is very close to a K43 rail.

If it is in the 3 digit ‘u’ Block I still think there is good chance it is original.
 
The barrel is marked 1109 n (cursive n) and fxo db on the bottom / right hand side. 1109 n is present on the bolt. Rear sight base, sight ladder, magazine floor plate, and sight ladder distances adjuster is marked 1109. Bolt sleeve, safety, and striker on back on bolt sleeve is marked 7715. Trigger guard is stamped and is marked with a cursive B forward of the magazine box. Magazine follower is stamped and is marked “lxr”. The reciever has no visible serial number, where it should be placed is a single waffen or eagle mark that is in the with the serial number on the barrel. Reciever is faintly marked “Mod 98” but it appears it was very faint and worn away. The receiver feels round and does not appear to have been scrubbed. Finish is consistent for the entire barreled action. Left hand of reciever has a different non waffen eagle like figure with the number 281 below and what appears to be the number 37 to the right of the number 281.

I am planning keeping and restoring the rifle with a K98K stock so it can return to original, non-sported configuration and so I can learn more about Mauser action rifles.

Would a cupped buttplate stock be appropriate or would the non-cupped buttplate be appropriate?
 
I've just spent like half an hour looking at the first picture of yours and comparing with literature and pictures in here .. and after all I'm not fully sure on which letter it is on your barrel. Only on the barrel is correct for this rifle, no worries on this. If you want to compare yourself, here is another ce44 from the p block, where the letter originally was misread as n block: https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/need-help-ce44-with-unusual-serial-number-and-c-stock.44372/ . I would therefore think your rifle isn't n block but possibly p block too.

Secondly, as others have pointed out, the scope rail on your rifle is different to the scope rail that is known for other "swept back" rifles. The others known have a single round hole in the middle of the rail whereas yours has the rail in a G/K.43 style with interrupted cut. Also I noted it seems the rail on your rifle is sitting a bit more to the rear.

It would be appreciated if you could take the pictures with natural daylight and show all what you have. Also you mentioned the stock is sportered - does it at least have the matching number in the barrel channel? Not knowing where you got it from you may also consider it worth trying to ask wherever you bought it if they possibly also have a scope mount and/or scope for your rifle.

Regarding your question: it would have most likely carried a laminate stock with the small takedown disc and cupped buttplate. You can also look at the pictures of this o block ce44 to get an idea on how the stock should had looked like: https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/ce44-1041o.51869/
 
More photos of rifle. No numbers are in or on the wooden stock, it appears to be a replacement wooden stock and does not appear to be a previous military stock. More pictures will follow on the barrel channel of the wooden stock. I can post more photos if needed but it will take me a bit of time. On further examination and information, the serial number is 1109 P (cursive P).
 

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More photos of barrel channel and stock.
 

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IMO an original sporterized swept back.
This is worthy of a restoration. What is interesting is that SN. 18 LSR prototype just was purchased at the Tulsa gun show. Small world....
 
bruce98k said:
IMO an original sporterized swept back.
This is worthy of a restoration. What is interesting is that SN. 18 LSR prototype just was purchased at the Tulsa gun show. Small world....
Click to expand...
Was the LSR prototype in the tt block in 1943?
 
Similar to the YF-22 and YF-23, it is possible that two competing prototypes were being tested at the same time. Hopefully it was purchased by a member that will share some pictures.
 
bruce98k said:
IMO an original sporterized swept back.
This is worthy of a restoration. What is interesting is that SN. 18 LSR prototype just was purchased at the Tulsa gun show. Small world....
Click to expand...
That was a bcd4 coded receiver with #18 on barrel, mount and matching can (so actually the rifle serial, not "just" as assembly number). Had checkered buttplate and key safety.
 
BlackCactus said:
More photos of rifle. No numbers are in or on the wooden stock, it appears to be a replacement wooden stock and does not appear to be a previous military stock. More pictures will follow on the barrel channel of the wooden stock. I can post more photos if needed but it will take me a bit of time. On further examination and information, the serial number is 1109 P (cursive P).
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Thank you for posting the additional pictures. It does look like the stock for a commercial Mauser action that someone modified in the barrel channel to get a military contour barrel in. Fortunately not milled off the handguard retaining ring.
Glad it turned out I was right on the letter suffix. Just for my own curiosity, if you find the time to show the serial on the bolt I'd appreciate it, simply to see if it easier readable as a p there.

As a result to this, look at that other linked ce44 p block rifle because this will tell you what you need to get to be able to put it back to military configuration.
 
If the Op is looking to restore the rifle I have an excellent Sauer stock with un-numbered bands and cleaning rod.
 
Absolut said:
I've just spent like half an hour looking at the first picture of yours and comparing with literature and pictures in here .. and after all I'm not fully sure on which letter it is on your barrel. Only on the barrel is correct for this rifle, no worries on this. If you want to compare yourself, here is another ce44 from the p block, where the letter originally was misread as n block: https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/need-help-ce44-with-unusual-serial-number-and-c-stock.44372/ . I would therefore think your rifle isn't n block but possibly p block too.

Secondly, as others have pointed out, the scope rail on your rifle is different to the scope rail that is known for other "swept back" rifles. The others known have a single round hole in the middle of the rail whereas yours has the rail in a G/K.43 style with interrupted cut. Also I noted it seems the rail on your rifle is sitting a bit more to the rear.

It would be appreciated if you could take the pictures with natural daylight and show all what you have. Also you mentioned the stock is sportered - does it at least have the matching number in the barrel channel? Not knowing where you got it from you may also consider it worth trying to ask wherever you bought it if they possibly also have a scope mount and/or scope for your rifle.

Regarding your question: it would have most likely carried a laminate stock with the small takedown disc and cupped buttplate. You can also look at the pictures of this o block ce44 to get an idea on how the stock should had looked like: https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/ce44-1041o.51869/
Click to expand...

BlackCactus said:
I have a K98K (J.P. Sauer) marked CE 44 that was in a sported wood stock. All other metal pieces are present and modified. It has a scope mount I am not familiar with. This scope mount is marked with the number 17 on the stop and appears to have the same amount of finish wear as the entire rifle. I can see that the receiver was drilled in two places and the mounting hardware holding the mount to the receiver is entirely flush. Any information you can share would be appreciated.

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I believe it is distinctly possible that I actually have the prototype mount for this rifle rail.

I have a ZF4 low and left mount designed similar to the scope mounts you’d see for a G43/41, but the mount is clearly not designed for said rifles. According to Weaver's Garands book there was a brief period of two months right at the end of the war where the germans tested a ZF4 scope mount style system on K98ks. They supposedly only made a few of these mounts and they never went into full production as the war ended during the field tests. The one I have was mentioned to be the prototype for these mounts.

I’d love to touch base with you and see if we can verify if it is for this mount type
 
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BlackCactus said:
I have a K98K (J.P. Sauer) marked CE 44 that was in a sported wood stock. All other metal pieces are present and modified. It has a scope mount I am not familiar with. This scope mount is marked with the number 17 on the stop and appears to have the same amount of finish wear as the entire rifle. I can see that the receiver was drilled in two places and the mounting hardware holding the mount to the receiver is entirely flush. Any information you can share would be appreciated.

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I spoke with Claus Espeholt out of denmark, he has documented EVERY publicly sold ZF4 scope he can find, his list is extremely long and well documented. https://espeholt.dk/

He concurred with me that this was most likely designed for a K98 with the exact rail your’s features.

I’m hoping you’ll see this as I’d very much like to discuss this with you and see if we can verify it and potentially reunite the two.

Edit: i’d genuinely recommend you don’t use this as a learning rifle on the off chance this is actually one of the very few K98s modified to test ZF4 mounts on K98s.

If it is it is worthy of proper professional restoration. And I’d genuinely discuss buying it from you simply because this scope mount is driving me insane not being able to prove its purpose
 
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Did no one notice that the mount that came with the gun mauser99 posted that was years ago (link posted above), matches the op’s rifle just posted - not just the serial number, but the pairing number matches as well. That’s statistically impossible to be random, that absolutely has to be the matching mount for this rifle. Incredible.
 
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