Third Party Press

Danzig Mauser G98/88 (1907)

Interesting rifle. I think John Wall's guess on the rifle in 2011 might still be valid, or maybe just another brief, experimental re-visitation of the barrel jacket concept as well. I wonder if the US Army Ordnance museum has any further info, or if they even still have the rifle in their collection?
 
Then and now I have seen nothing like it, I tend to agree with Chris regarding the likelihood of this having much to do with Danzig or being done in 1907; something like this would have been done at GPK or the Spandau arsenal.... by 1907 Danzig G98 production was in freefall, clearly preparing for the 98a, 1909 they made no confirmed G98 (Jeff Noll reports one in his book but is very lonely...)

Danzig had a shortage of skilled labor, experimentation seems like a a stretch pre-war, - Loewe had a bad reputation for luring the best workers to their factories (American Machinist had 2-3 articles about the trouble this caused in Berlin, Loewe was especially noted for top pay, safety measures and the unheard of special worker facilities... if Spandau was hurting, Danzig was suffering in the boonies...)

*** pedigree aside it seems ill-suited for 1907 or even pre-war experimentation, what would be gained for the expense by 1909...
 
Thanks for answer .
Below are my thoughts.

WHAT DO WE HAVE?
- the rifle has a receiver from the Gewehr 98 rifle (visible Gew.98 marking on the receiver)
- the rifle has a manufacturer's and year of production marking on the receiver typical of Gewehrfabrik Danzig
- the rifle does not have visible acceptance and acceptance markings and serial number as for military production
- the barrel sleev is probably made using the drawing method.
- the barrel sleev is mounted to the receiver similarly to the Gewehr 88 .
- the sight seems to be mounted on the barrel sleev like in Gewehr 88. The front sight base is soldered to the barrel, the front sight itself is visible missing.
- the bayonet mount is screwed to the barrel sleev.

BACKGROUND

1. Patents from Gewehrfabrik Danzig
In the 1880s, two high-ranking officials from Gewehrfabrik Danzig:
- Wilhelm von Flotow
- Hermann Leidig
Patented a method for cold drawing of thin-walled seamless pipes.
Below is a list of patents developed and related to the activities of Gewehrfabrik Danzig:
34857 / Maschine zur Massenerzeugung kleiner Holzsachen/ 1885.06.16
42139 / Verfahren zur Herstellung conischer Röhren / 1887.03.15
42849 / Walzwerk zur Herstellung kleiner Rotationskörper / 1887.06.10
Walzwerk zur Herstellung kleiner Rotationskörper / 1887.10.30
44416 / Kaltziehmaschine zur Herstellung von Röhren / 1887.07.19
44435 / Neuerung an dem unter Nr. 42 139 patentirten Verfahren zum Ziehen konischer Röhren / 1888.01.15
50288 / Kaltziehmaschine zur Herstellung von Röhren / 1889.04.11
These patents were to be directly used, among other things, in the production of weapons, in this case the tubular magazines used in the I.G. M71/84 and the sleev for rifle barrels for the Gewehr 88 rifle. This method was also to be used to produce tubular steel cavalry lances M1890 and M1893.

2. A polytechnic is established in Gdańsk
The polytechnic was established in 1899 by the decision of Emperor Wilhelm II, after it was approved by the Prussian deputies on March 16, 1899. The grand opening ceremony took place in October 1904. According to the statute, it was then called the Königliche Technische Hochschule zu Danzig.


THEORY
a) Continuation of work on Flotow and Leidig's patents at Gewehrfabrik Danzig?
b) A diploma thesis from the polytechnic in cooperation with Gewehrfabrik Danzig?
 
I'm skeptical of the last one for a few reasons, mostly having to do with the mismatch between the higher level cooperation implied with a state arsenal (presumably providing a state-owned weapon) and the level of education provided by a Technical University at this time. I know a fair bit about the pre-1945 German educational system, but the TU's are a bit of a blind spot of mine so don't take this as gospel, but I don't think that a Diplomarbiet / Abschlussarbeit was generally part of the course of study for a degree from the TU's in the Imperial era. Again, this is a weak spot of mine so if you know otherwise please say so. I'll give a caveat that I could maybe see it if the person involved was already employed at the Gewehrfabrik.

Second, from what I'm seeing with some very light early morning poking around the Technische Hochschule pre-1945 was mostly known for civil engineering. That's not to say they didn't offer significantly more, but it's what their reputation was for.

Honestly I think the Danzig roll mark is a bit of a red herring. We don't have any indication that the gun was manufactured like this using a new receiver, and once it left the factory the work could have been done by anyone. I'm personally partial to the GPK idea floated above, if only because they had an established track record of trying to improve accuracy of the Army's rifles going back before the m71. A project like this just feels very them in a way I can't quit put my finger on right now.
 
Now, having said that, something that might support there being a Danzig connection is the lack of a SN or firing proof on the expected part of the recever. That would be expected if it had been an issued rifle. It also looksl like we're missing the usual assortment of stamps on the right side of the receiver, although I wish we had a clearer photo of that area.

So perhaps it was a receiver that was rejected at some point, or otherwise never had final assembly finished on it? If it was a reject then that might explain a few things, and in that case the work may have been done at Danzig well after Gew98 production ceased just using something they had on hand.
 
Cyrano4747 said:
So perhaps it was a receiver that was rejected at some point, or otherwise never had final assembly finished on it? If it was a reject then that might explain a few things, and in that case the work may have been done at Danzig well after Gew98 production ceased just using something they had on hand.
Click to expand...
Yeah, That's precisely what Paul and I were getting at yesterday. No acceptance, no fireproof. That pretty much screams a spare receiver that was used in assembling a trials rifle.

I agree with Paul; my money is on assembly at the GPK or Spandau
 
chrisftk said:
Yeah, That's precisely what Paul and I were getting at yesterday. No acceptance, no fireproof. That pretty much screams a spare receiver that was used in assembling a trials rifle.

I agree with Paul; my money is on assembly at the GPK or Spandau
Click to expand...

I suspect the answer to this is a simple "no" but do we know what happened to the on-hand receivers when they started winding down Gew98 production at Danzig in favor of the Kar98?

I'm thinking about some of the examples we have of similar situations over in K98k-land, with the final batches of receivers being shipped out to other factories that were still making them - e.g. Borsigwalde receivers showing up on Oberndorf guns. It might make sense Danzig cleared out the stock rooms and sent the remainders off to Spandau, as that would be the closest. Spandau would also make sense as a source of parts for the GPK as they were headquartered nearby.
 
We've seen a few examples where they turned up in later Danzig production (like 1914 or 15) and we've seen them pop up on weird stuff like sterngewehre. Some ending up in experimental use is not out of the realm of possibility
 
I still would like to find out more info on the 1912 dated Danzig receivers. I have only seen two being used on 1915 production rifles. Never have I seen a complete 1912 Danzig gewehr 98 before. They could have been making them for a future rifle contract, or subcontracting them out to another manufacturer. Maybe, more info will come to light someday.
 
Warrior1354 said:
I still would like to find out more info on the 1912 dated Danzig receivers. I have only seen two being used on 1915 production rifles. Never have I seen a complete 1912 Danzig gewehr 98 before. They could have been making them for a future rifle contract, or subcontracting them out to another manufacturer. Maybe, more info will come to light someday.
Click to expand...
The details on the two known is scanty, Danzig was the largest mfg of the 98a prewar and seemingly didn't run significant dual production efforts, - it seems switch overs were major disruptions for Danzig, of course this was true of every operation but this seem more of a problem at Danzig to get iits stride back (but when they got going they were hard to match...)

***Erfurt was the the biggest multi-tasker imaginable, Danzig was like a teenage boy, if you could get them to focus they were extremely productive; Erfurt was like a woman, get her going she could juggle 5 things at a time and order subcontractor to purpose (Suhl etc...)
 
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