Late war K.43 Walther rifles question to pose

Hello,
What is the likely hood that a mismatch K.43 ac45 would be a true bring back like the late P.38 ac45 mismatches and PP mismatches? Given that all is correct, stock unsanded, etc. I don't have one in mind or anything, I just was thinking how likely it would be in our collector community's opinion?

Thanks for your thoughts.

IMO pretty decent, given that the Third Army seized the factory in April 45 and we have pretty good evidence of those guys taking pretty much anything that wasn't bolted down. In the middle of the d-block run for AC45s

That said, buy the rifle not the story. At the end of the day there's no real way to know if a d-block was assembled from parts by a GI who didn't care about numbers or if the bolt carrier was damaged in the 60s and replaced stateside. Also anything before the d-block should be held to the same standards as any other German rifle.

My opinion only, late d blocks at the factory were either matching or had unnumbered bolts. It seems bolts were left unnumbered until proof firing, at which point they were numbered. Maybe a gun that had an unnumbered bolt stolen to renumbered and make another match. Or as stated a postwar mismatch. Either way it’s still mismatched.

mrfarb said:

My opinion only, late d blocks at the factory were either matching or had unnumbered bolts. It seems bolts were left unnumbered until proof firing, at which point they were numbered. Maybe a gun that had an unnumbered bolt stolen to renumbered and make another match. Or as stated a postwar mismatch. Either way it’s still mismatched.

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That's a good point. Thinking it through I would also expect any true GI assembled factory capture guns to be lacking final proofs.

One like that would be. But still would it be a "collector variant" like the mismatched PP's and P.38'ac45 mismatched c blocks are? Of course, a mismatched K.43 ac45 late d block would be worth less, but given if everything was correct, I would think it would be another K.43 variant. But that's my opinion and wondering what other opinions would be.

I would say while theoretically possible in a “D” block, for me the only way I’d be interested.. is if a rifle had verified GI history (and the rifle would have to meet all of my other criteria) and all wear patterns were consistent with 1945 assembly.

IMO how would anyone really know if that exact bolt (or expected serial numbered parts in general) left the factory in the rifle?

“IMO how would anyone really know if that exact bolt (or expected serial numbered parts in general) left the factory in the rifle?”

True. But, the same could be said for all the P.38 ac45 mismatch c blocks out there, and all the blank slide ac PP mismatches. They are still an accepted P.38/PP variant. Not sure why a mismatched, totally correct in all other aspects except the numbering of the components, K.43 ac45 d block (maybe even a c block too) couldn’t also be a K.43 variant as well.

I once owned a consecutive SN pair of D blocks, one had a numbered bolt, the other did not.

Titan said:

I once owned a consecutive SN pair of D blocks, one had a numbered bolt, the other did not.

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Niiiiiice, That's really interesting!

I personally just think they are GI assembled rifles and not actual variants of regular production...A "variant" to me is something the factory did while in the course of regular production...say adding a type 3 band to M1 carbines on late Winchester and Inlands.

I think by now it is commonly accepted all or certainly the majority of "D" block AC45 K43's didn't leave the factory while under German control. Most likely some "C," blocks as well...hence why those 2 blocks are often found in "factory" condition. Finding one with a factory un-serialized bolt carrier would be a strong indicator of a GI assembled rifle at best and at worst a "humped" collector rifle, where someone is attempting to add a "story" to to a mismatched rifle and committing essentially fraud.

Essentially how would any collector be able to tell which it is...GI assembled or humped by a collector?

IMO a weapon which is currently in a state which the factory never assembled IMO can't be a "variant."

Cool rifle certainly but not worth German assembled money or as desirable all things equal

Just my opinion certainly

Good discussion, and we will never have a 100% answer I feel.

Mike probably has the most accepted opinion. The rifles (c and d blocks..maybe a few others with issues??) were sitting assembled, with unnumbered bolt carriers etc., awaiting test firing and proofing. and/or final numbering. I suspect there were a number of rifles in various states of assembly/testing/proofing. Plus, god only knows how many parts were available for a USGI to assemble.

In my opinion, no way to prove if a rifle was truly factory assembled or from a GI if the carrier parts are not numbered.

Remember though, just before capture, Walther sent a bunch of their receivers and parts to BLM assembly. Hence the BLM ac45 f block rifles. So, how much stuff made it out to BLM vs. how much stuff didn’t when the Americans arrived?

Excellent point.

I am chiming back in!
As for the ac45 F blocks, I have only ever seen them with Walther barrel/receiver, all other parts were BLM.
What has everyone else observed?
Titan

I wonder how many folks over the years put BLM parts back, to make the rifle "correct" for BLM ...since it had some Walther parts on it??

Kind of like folks putting ddx scopes on late Walther K43 snipers, when they probably were originally issued with dow scopes?

Titan said:

I am chiming back in!
As for the ac45 F blocks, I have only ever seen them with Walther barrel/receiver, all other parts were BLM.
What has everyone else observed?
Titan

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I would need to check my listings of these, but that’s probably pretty accurate. I don’t think any of them were documented with whether the parts were Walther or BLM. I’ll need to start doing that with these because that’s an interesting thing to note.

Brian Kowalski said:

I wonder how many folks over the years put BLM parts back, to make the rifle "correct" for BLM ...since it had some Walther parts on it??

Kind of like folks putting ddx scopes on late Walther K43 snipers, when they probably were originally issued with dow scopes?

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Exactly.

Tiger 2 Tank said:

I would need to check my listings of these, but that’s probably pretty accurate. I don’t think any of them were documented with whether the parts were Walther or BLM. I’ll need to start doing that with these because that’s an interesting thing to note.


Exactly.

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I'll check my f block later today and post some pics. Heading out to work now

Here are some without taking it completely down