ZG 1229 Vampir somewhere?
- Thread starter Nigromontanus
- Start date
Link to entire magazine
Blackpowderresearcher
Well-known member
Infrared was declassified post-war by American Military Intelliegence. I guess they figured out that everybody (but the Japanese) had it. By 1947 you could buy a book that described the technology, had diagrams and order sheet and order form to build your own!
Germany had Vampir.
The Soviets started working on it in the '30s and during the war used it for ship navitgation and night aircraft operation (help in landing). Initially the Soviets mounted it on a SMG and a tovarisch carried the battery and the light for the submachinegun soldier. That actually was pretty clever since the weapon user didn't need all that extra weight. Post-war the Soviets finally adapted it to the M91/30.
The British had Tabby but it wasn't weapon mounted. It was used to recover landing parties (Commandos and) Americans had access to at least one during Torch.
Regarding the book Vampir it's written by a fellow who was a Luftwaffe Auxiliary (what 16 year old wasn't since late 1943?) and got his first experience shooting at aircraft. He and his mates were drafted into the Heer. Their skill with AA helped later.
Get the book and read it.
BTW, one USN ocean rescue tug didn't have one but they had a cat mascot. They'd bring the cat up topside and one sailor was supposed to watch the cat and point out the direction the cat would stare at. I supposed that was the original Tabby (the cat's name was something like V-8). Today that would make PETA scream, gnash teef and howl.
Germany had Vampir.
The Soviets started working on it in the '30s and during the war used it for ship navitgation and night aircraft operation (help in landing). Initially the Soviets mounted it on a SMG and a tovarisch carried the battery and the light for the submachinegun soldier. That actually was pretty clever since the weapon user didn't need all that extra weight. Post-war the Soviets finally adapted it to the M91/30.
The British had Tabby but it wasn't weapon mounted. It was used to recover landing parties (Commandos and) Americans had access to at least one during Torch.
Regarding the book Vampir it's written by a fellow who was a Luftwaffe Auxiliary (what 16 year old wasn't since late 1943?) and got his first experience shooting at aircraft. He and his mates were drafted into the Heer. Their skill with AA helped later.
Get the book and read it.
BTW, one USN ocean rescue tug didn't have one but they had a cat mascot. They'd bring the cat up topside and one sailor was supposed to watch the cat and point out the direction the cat would stare at. I supposed that was the original Tabby (the cat's name was something like V-8). Today that would make PETA scream, gnash teef and howl.
CRH113
Senior Member
The royal armouries used it on their video on the M3 carbine, that was the first time I’ve seen that photo.
roos1984
Well-known member
Thank you
CRH113
Senior Member
Yup, they used that photo when talking about other early night sight developments
albertcher
Member
Hello
Saw this picture before. It is out of a series of pics showing different IR-equipment, some in kind of a laboratory. I guess they where taken at the Leitz facility… There are also three or four realy amazing pics of a Kübelwagen with IR driving devices.
There is another picture of the same guy demonstrating the Vampir from the front. He wears an odd uniform mix: a Waffenrock (not really his size) and an Army fieldcap. He looks like being in the age 40-50 and has a big moustache. My guess he is an factory employee of Leitz demonstrating the stuff and to give him a more military appearance he had to wear the strange uniform…
The Vampir battery box shown looks different to the well known „british“ one from Juni 45, so i think a prototype or pre series model: the box looks like being of sheet metal, cabeling is very different and also the carrying frame. He displays an Stg or MP44 with phosphated (parkerized?) and blued parts…
Regards
roos1984
Well-known member
Thanks for the information, if you have pictures you can show them here.
albertcher
Member
Hello
This is my interpretation of the battery unit according to the few given data from the british report from June 45 and the pics.
It was carefully „reengineered“ and now fits all available pics and data ( e.g. measurements, weight, of course, but also battery voltage and life span in use). It was built and recreated using even some original WW2 parts in and outside and actually it would work. All available pics were studied for hours to find even the smallest details… for example the correct plugs for the cables and so on. Similar and alike battery boxes were studied to get ideas for how it might have looked… sorry, i won‘t show pics of the interior now as i do not want it to be copied now!
This was the outcome of the „cooperation“ with the guy who built roos1984 actual ZG. So nothing has to be added to the exceptional work of him! We added some minor details on the ZG, too, for example the light switch on the IR beamer or other cables and style of switch. The labels were recreated from similar ones on other actual preserved IR devices from a SdKfz 251/20 Falke.
So now we are satisfied with the outcome as to be the maybe closest reproduction of the ZG1229 unit except an original turns up!
Btw whilst „using“ snd fooling around with this setup one easily can proof some of the concepts forwarded in many books of the postwar era regarding the Vampir as pure fiction and fantasy… storming troops or nightfighters standing on moving tanks for close protection for example…
Maybe some day i find the time and patience i will write an article on all those matters… and find some place to publish this…
I‘d like to say thank you to roos1984 here for starting this with U. V., the quality and effort he put inside this and establish the contact for me with U. Thank you!!!
I‘d also say Thank you to U.V. for building this ZG and the patience and willingness to accept the proposals and changes i addressed. I also liked the hourlong discussions…
Regards
This is my interpretation of the battery unit according to the few given data from the british report from June 45 and the pics.
It was carefully „reengineered“ and now fits all available pics and data ( e.g. measurements, weight, of course, but also battery voltage and life span in use). It was built and recreated using even some original WW2 parts in and outside and actually it would work. All available pics were studied for hours to find even the smallest details… for example the correct plugs for the cables and so on. Similar and alike battery boxes were studied to get ideas for how it might have looked… sorry, i won‘t show pics of the interior now as i do not want it to be copied now!
This was the outcome of the „cooperation“ with the guy who built roos1984 actual ZG. So nothing has to be added to the exceptional work of him! We added some minor details on the ZG, too, for example the light switch on the IR beamer or other cables and style of switch. The labels were recreated from similar ones on other actual preserved IR devices from a SdKfz 251/20 Falke.
So now we are satisfied with the outcome as to be the maybe closest reproduction of the ZG1229 unit except an original turns up!
Btw whilst „using“ snd fooling around with this setup one easily can proof some of the concepts forwarded in many books of the postwar era regarding the Vampir as pure fiction and fantasy… storming troops or nightfighters standing on moving tanks for close protection for example…
Maybe some day i find the time and patience i will write an article on all those matters… and find some place to publish this…
I‘d like to say thank you to roos1984 here for starting this with U. V., the quality and effort he put inside this and establish the contact for me with U. Thank you!!!
I‘d also say Thank you to U.V. for building this ZG and the patience and willingness to accept the proposals and changes i addressed. I also liked the hourlong discussions…
Regards
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albertcher
Member
Zielfernrohr
Member
Roos1984 is there anywhere we could watch a video showing your ZG 1229 in use on a Mp44? I would love to see a true test of this system’s capabilities in the dark and how practical it was in the field, including weight, battery life, range and so on
I tried to get Ian from Forgotten Weapons to get one and make a video but he thougt it would not represent the real ZG 1229 as the night vision in yours is post war but I’m thinking there are no working originals left in the world for testing so this would be the closest anyone could ever come to see what the germans cooked up during WW2
GarandThumb made a video testing the Krumlauf attatchment on the Mp44, practical use videoes like this is so important historically I think
I tried to get Ian from Forgotten Weapons to get one and make a video but he thougt it would not represent the real ZG 1229 as the night vision in yours is post war but I’m thinking there are no working originals left in the world for testing so this would be the closest anyone could ever come to see what the germans cooked up during WW2
GarandThumb made a video testing the Krumlauf attatchment on the Mp44, practical use videoes like this is so important historically I think
I have the postwar German B8-V made in the 1960's and I'm sure it's a lot more advanced than the 1229 so the view through the scope comparison would probably be unfair:
However, I also have a Czech built Soviet NSP-2 bult in 1963 IIRC, and I would be willing to bet that the picture quality through that unit would be on par with the 1229:
Here's my dining room chair at night, lol:
I've had this out at night to look at people at about 100M and it's good enough to hit a man sized target. However, when I took it to the range to try and sight it in, the resolution isn't good enough to shoot at a small zeroing target. I would have to sight it in on a high contrast torso sized target.
However, I also have a Czech built Soviet NSP-2 bult in 1963 IIRC, and I would be willing to bet that the picture quality through that unit would be on par with the 1229:
Here's my dining room chair at night, lol:
I've had this out at night to look at people at about 100M and it's good enough to hit a man sized target. However, when I took it to the range to try and sight it in, the resolution isn't good enough to shoot at a small zeroing target. I would have to sight it in on a high contrast torso sized target.
I was watching these when he was making them and I most likely would have bought one if it wasn't a static prop. I would have done a very in-depth review.
