timmybagel
Member
Won a Steyr 1943 Kar98K for $1379 on auction after shipping and tax, some of the serial numbers match, some don’t. I wanted to know what its true value is and if there’s any signs of forgery. This is my first relic firearm.
‘43 98K, Real/Fake? Worth what I paid?
- Thread starter timmybagel
- Start date
luftpirate
Well-known member
Looks like a mismatched rifle, no signs of anything funny to me. You likely overpaid a little, but have it checked out and go shoot it. It will be worth it then. Someone here can help you find the screw for the rear sight. Find a couple boxes of PPU 8mm.
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
Turbo Archie
Well-known member
Mauserguy85
Well-known member
It’s a SS contract built in 1944 using a 43 Gusen made receiver. Receiver serial moves to barrel. Barrel code is capital FA and supplied by DOT (Brunn 1) so this was manufactured after the Allied bombing of the Steyr Factory. The bombing destroyed steyr barrel production for good essentially. So that’s really interesting. In 1944 subcontracted barrels really only show up on SS contracts from late March or even early April to mid June if I’m not mistaken. After that, Gusen supplied the barrels. Firing proof also shows signs of lack of imprint definition in the wings which is common in 44 examples. The triggerguard and floorplate are “matching” to the barreled receiver.
However that’s where the good news ends. The bolt has mismatched components from what we can see in the pics. Would have to disassemble the bolt further to see what else matches or doesn’t. The stock is the wrong type and not matching (at this point would most likely be a low bolt cutout), bands are wrong as this variation of ss contract would have numbered bands to the serial.
Basically looks like perhaps this may have been some kind of “sporter rescue” that’s someone tried to put back in military type configuration.
Unfortunately even if you tried to “restore it correctly” with the money spent into it already, it would be a fool’s errand. A nice looking low bolt cutout steyr stock will run you on average $600-$1000 (at least that’s what I’ve been seeing on AVERAGE). You can find some unnumbered stamped bands and bandspring pretty easily but will run you over a hundred for a set and since they were originally numbered, it will be better but still won’t be technically “correct”. Then you would need to find a matching to itself bolt because the one you have is not matching to itself (it’s functional most likely though). That’s going to run you $200+. You could recoup some money by breaking up the parts you would be replacing but you would be in the hole for sure. I understand you didn’t ask about going that route but if I were in this situation, those are the numbers I would be crunching and it’s what I’d be thinking about…
As to your actual question of how you did… Honestly you’re in the hole but not by too much. The only thing going for you is that the barreled receiver and its matching triggerguard assembly are SS contract. So that is fairly desirable. The rest of the parts are just thrown together. If I were to consider buying this exact setup this is what I would be thinking….
Barreled ss contract receiver with matching triggerguard assembly maybe $500 in todays market. Bore condition would play a big part in price.
Refinished and sanded numbered white glue stock and it’s mismatched metal maybe $300-$350.
Mismatched to itself bolt around the $150-$180 mark
I would value this package around $1k. You can find better rifles here on the trader for under what you paid though.
I would check the follower and make sure the back edge isn’t ground down. If the bolt slides forward on an empty chamber, that’s usually why.
Can you take a picture of the front sight hood? Would like to see if it’s the really desirable steyr “round” hood.
Bore and muzzle condition?
However that’s where the good news ends. The bolt has mismatched components from what we can see in the pics. Would have to disassemble the bolt further to see what else matches or doesn’t. The stock is the wrong type and not matching (at this point would most likely be a low bolt cutout), bands are wrong as this variation of ss contract would have numbered bands to the serial.
Basically looks like perhaps this may have been some kind of “sporter rescue” that’s someone tried to put back in military type configuration.
Unfortunately even if you tried to “restore it correctly” with the money spent into it already, it would be a fool’s errand. A nice looking low bolt cutout steyr stock will run you on average $600-$1000 (at least that’s what I’ve been seeing on AVERAGE). You can find some unnumbered stamped bands and bandspring pretty easily but will run you over a hundred for a set and since they were originally numbered, it will be better but still won’t be technically “correct”. Then you would need to find a matching to itself bolt because the one you have is not matching to itself (it’s functional most likely though). That’s going to run you $200+. You could recoup some money by breaking up the parts you would be replacing but you would be in the hole for sure. I understand you didn’t ask about going that route but if I were in this situation, those are the numbers I would be crunching and it’s what I’d be thinking about…
As to your actual question of how you did… Honestly you’re in the hole but not by too much. The only thing going for you is that the barreled receiver and its matching triggerguard assembly are SS contract. So that is fairly desirable. The rest of the parts are just thrown together. If I were to consider buying this exact setup this is what I would be thinking….
Barreled ss contract receiver with matching triggerguard assembly maybe $500 in todays market. Bore condition would play a big part in price.
Refinished and sanded numbered white glue stock and it’s mismatched metal maybe $300-$350.
Mismatched to itself bolt around the $150-$180 mark
I would value this package around $1k. You can find better rifles here on the trader for under what you paid though.
I would check the follower and make sure the back edge isn’t ground down. If the bolt slides forward on an empty chamber, that’s usually why.
Can you take a picture of the front sight hood? Would like to see if it’s the really desirable steyr “round” hood.
Bore and muzzle condition?
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timmybagel
Member
These are photos from gunbroker, I have yet to even pay for the item. First time used gunbroker and had the intent to pay with credit, but the seller told me check only and refused to assist me, telling me to just pay with cash advance. I should probably back out of the sale then…
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
I would definitely bail, but that's me. The level of mismatch is pretty bad given the stock and its metal are all different numbers and that bolt mismash just kills it IMHO.
Mauserguy85
Well-known member
That’s your call. It’s an interesting ss contract barreled receiver with its somewhat less commonly seen dot subcontracted barrel and it’s matching triggerguard assembly. However that’s all it really has going for it in my opinion. I almost wish the guy was just selling the barreled receiver…
I guess it really depends on what you’re looking for in a k98k. Also was the seller of the auction up front with what he’s selling? How was it described? If he described it as all matching original and blah blah blah…. Well you have every right to bail.
Do you want a shooter? A true collectible? A mix of both worlds? Your price range?
timmybagel
Member
The item description is as follows…
“Good condition WWII German 98k Mauser Rifle in 8mm Mauser (7.92 x 57) caliber that is marked “bnz 43” on the receiver for manufacture by Steyr in 1943. Rifle is NOT import marked and has matching serial numbers on the barrel, rear sight, and floorplate. Otherwise nonmatching. Metal finish is original blue showing some wear. Bore is good with strong rifling and a little gray. Stock has been refinished and shows some normal handling marks. Complete with cleaning rod and front sight hood. A good example of a “bnz” code 98k Mauser Rifle.”
I want a shooter and something that has seen action in WWII, up to $1300. I would shoot it once in a while, but would love to keep it as a decorative piece of history as well.
Mike2994
Young Mike
The seller of the rifle is a legitimate seller and only offers payment through check/money order. I have bought numerous items from this seller and have had an exceptional experience each and every time. With all due respect the person suggesting fraud is talking out of their a$$.
With all due respect the time to ask questions about a purchase is before the auction ends and you spend what is essentially an entire paycheck for an average American, not after. The seller correctly described the rifle and you thought it was worth your bid.
With all due respect the time to ask questions about a purchase is before the auction ends and you spend what is essentially an entire paycheck for an average American, not after. The seller correctly described the rifle and you thought it was worth your bid.
Mauserguy85
Well-known member
Well… to be honest, Mike2994 is right. The rifle appears to have been honestly described. Sure, he got the date of manufacture wrong by saying it was made in 1943 but that’s a honest mistake and 90% of k98k enthusiasts would get that wrong as well. To compensate, he didn’t mention SS contract barreled receiver which in my opinion would have probably drove up bidding higher just because that’s the nature of “ss stuff” on gunbroker.
However what you do is up to you. As Mike said, the time for questions, getting opinions or value assessments should have been done b4 bidding. Not trying to beat you up here but it appears you won it fair and square and the seller did a honest job of describing it.
However what you do is up to you. As Mike said, the time for questions, getting opinions or value assessments should have been done b4 bidding. Not trying to beat you up here but it appears you won it fair and square and the seller did a honest job of describing it.
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Honkey Tonk Devil
Well-known member
Gotta say I agree with the two above. You could have done worse that's for sure. For me this is one I wouldn't feel bad shooting regularly and tossing in the truck. It's better than Rc imo.
Turbo Archie
Well-known member
Many of us know the seller personally. I have bought from him in person many times as he does come up with interesting items but I also know what I am buying.
I believe he started this with $100 bid and with that description he didn't do anything wrong.
Time to put your big boy pants on.
In contrast, I have a mintyish (all metal and bluing) matching byf44 with refinsihed stock and two other issues I'd let go for $1500..
I believe he started this with $100 bid and with that description he didn't do anything wrong.
Time to put your big boy pants on.
In contrast, I have a mintyish (all metal and bluing) matching byf44 with refinsihed stock and two other issues I'd let go for $1500..
Honkey Tonk Devil
Well-known member
So which is it, should he "put his big boy pants on" or ghost the gb auction and buy yours?
timmybagel
Member
It’s a tough situation, and a poor call on my part. I wouldn’t have bid had I known the seller didn’t take CC payments… attempted to cancel the auction before it ended with the seller and gunbroker and explained my situation. Didn’t work out. $1379 is a rough call if I had to “put on my big boy pants” or ghost the seller and take the “non-payment buyer” title on my account.
Turbo Archie
Well-known member
If he ghosted the GB seller I wouldn't deal with him. I wasn't really offering it to him, just trying to give him an example as to what is out there in that price range. I think mine would be a better deal based on condition and fully matching but everyone's taste is deferent. byf 44s are really common compared to contract guns. I prefer non-import contract guns over most byfs but that's just my taste.
He just posted a want ad for a nice matching non-sanded k98 with a $1,300 budget. Do you have anything to offer him in that range to help him out?