Questionable Camos

[Hambone]

What's the thoughts on this one?

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/51130-m40-camo/

I don't think the pics do it justice and don't help the analysis. Whenever I look at a helmet, my first reaction is a visceral one. What does my gut say? Sometimes I immediately know, and these are "safe bet" helmets. No one who knows anything would dispute a "safe bet" helmet. Next I presume it fake and let the helmet tell me otherwise. My gut reaction on that helmet flipflopped as I scrolled through the pics. If it is KM, that modifies the analysis slightly because I've found their paint colors and paints looked a little different. I really want to like it, but my paranoia (well founded) gets in the way.

So, the put my money where my mouth is answer: I'd ask for more pics. If it was high priced I would want a 3 day inspect / no questions asked return privilege. If it was cheap, I'd take a chance on it based upon the pics. We need more and better pics, preferably in different light. I hope this was sufficiently to the point and not too much rambling.

 

[Frank F.]

Q66 camo

I promised some pics of nzef1940s, now mine, Q66 camo.

I think I did good... Thanks Mike!

F.

 

[acer]

Ah, you're right and he's wrong because you went to a hotel room helmet party at the SOS? None of those guys would sell a fake, or bless their buddy's fake, nor make a mistake, right? I remember when I set up at the SOS, how some would joke and laugh over drinks in the hotel bar about high dollar humpers they sold.

I think you should address M45's comments substantively.

It seems is impossible to speak and moderate when you will have allways something to say, do you want to believe it like that?, ok not problem for me. this would be a loong not ending conversation, forums is what they have.

Dont expect to me being address M45´s comments since he doest act like a man, where is he now? like allways hidden until all this is gone. and the will appear to questionate a helmet with some funny theories, no thanks!!, not going to spend my time on something like this, i dont want to take more part than this. But im very glad he has been banned from many forums, im gald he has just found this oasis to creat his wonderful theory, and here is where he must be, so doesnt deserve one minute more of my attention, since he is not dangerous.

I dont want to take part too much in this forum since it is a K98 forum, and i m not a collector, and as a german helmet forum, it doesnt have what im looking for.

My respet for all those members except for one and for what i have expplained before.

Hope not ot have to come here again, i dont enjoy to be arguing here for somebody who is not really important, so keep doing what you have until now.

Bye!

 

[Hambone]

It seems is impossible to speak and moderate when you will have allways something to say, do you want to believe it like that?, ok not problem for me. this would be a loong not ending conversation, forums is what they have.

Dont expect to me being address M45´s comments since he doest act like a man, where is he now? like allways hidden until all this is gone. and the will appear to questionate a helmet with some funny theories, no thanks!!, not going to spend my time on something like this, i dont want to take more part than this. But im very glad he has been banned from many forums, im gald he has just found this oasis to creat his wonderful theory, and here is where he must be, so doesnt deserve one minute more of my attention, since he is not dangerous.

I dont want to take part too much in this forum since it is a K98 forum, and i m not a collector, and as a german helmet forum, it doesnt have what im looking for.

My respet for all those members except for one and for what i have expplained before.

Hope not ot have to come here again, i dont enjoy to be arguing here for somebody who is not really important, so keep doing what you have until now.

Bye!

So you would like to see me censor and ban M45 then, instead of having to argue your position? I think censoring and banning is how the hobby got XRFacts and the Champagne Rune for an extra 10 years. I think many are ripped off daily as a result. You are always welcome to come here and intelligently and substantively debate whatever M45 or anyone else posts. I believe our members would agree with you, among Internet forums, we are definitely an "oasis"

 

[M45]

A critique of a few of Acer's camos.

Remember, the word is 'questionable' not 'fake'. Also, I'm going by only one photo per.

Camo #1 - Near 100% of camo remaining, ding in front excepted (didn't see much combat at all). Age looks decent, but not much COMBAT WEAR to go along with it.

Camo #2 - I would say the paint was chemically aged/distressed. Scrapes reveal the fresh paint underneath (a very bad sign, IMO).

Camo #3 - Not bad. At one time I would have been in with both feet with this one, but considering what I have seen in the last years, I would not bet my life on it.

Camo #4 - An 'exotic freshie' with great aging and distress. Well distributed minor wear. How did that high-profile rivet head escape any serious damage compared to the rest of the lid ?

Camo #5 - Great overall wear and distress. Is that decal trying to be ET ? Once again, BURGUNDY in stead of red-brown and fine micro-spatter indicating modern spray equipment.

Camo #6 - Very nice overall. Rivet head is pristine except for one ding compared to the moderate wear elsewhere (disparity). Too many parallel scratches for my taste.


Overall assessment: Exotic freshies with near 100% of camo remaining and new/bright appearing paint. Various problems include wrong RAL paint colors, micro-spatter, a general lack of believable combat wear, and disparity of wear on components. Great movie props are what is being accepted as authentic camos.

 

[Hambone]

I like some of Acer's helmets. Let me say too that this forum is not going to be a place for singling out people and their helmets to thrash. This is not a place to obliquely air out personal issues and engage in attacks by thrashing someone's gear. There is already a site that does that, IMHO, authenticating and trashing gear based upon WHO owns it. That is intellectually dishonest and does not advance the ball.

We need to pull on our big boy pants here and address the WHAT not the WHO, and do so in a manner that people reading these threads learn something from it and the hobby is advanced.

Thank you,
HB

 

[M45]

SE66 camo

A recent GHW2 3-color camo.

Not impressive at all. It has that look of a modern distressed camo, IMO. The interior shots only reinforce that assessment.

One thing I have noticed about camos in general is that when I saw camos I believed to be authentic throughout my collecting career, I noticed that many of them had the camo very sparsely applied, as if the paint was being rationed or stretched to go further; camo daubed on in splotches here or there.

Many questionable camos, in contrast, have paint very liberally sloshed on, thickly applied and even interior rims camoed as if there was no care to how much paint was being used.

As I understand it, many/most 3-color RAL camos were done by units in the field, most of the helmets sprayed by one team. With so much emphasis on conservation of materials during the TR era, it does not make much sense for them to be spraying a lot of interior rims (basically wasting the camo and the time).

 

[Hambone]

A recent GHW2 3-color camo.

Not impressive at all. It has that look of a modern distressed camo. The interior shots only reinforce that assessment.

One thing I have noticed about camos in general is that when I saw camos I believed to be authentic throughout my collecting career, I noticed that many of them had the camo very sparsely applied, as if the paint was being rationed or stretched to go further.

Many questionable camos, in contrast, have paint very liberally sloshed on, thickly applied and even interior rims camoed as if there was no care to how much paint was being used.

I personally like this one. I would certainly not dismiss it without a hands out. I also respectfully disagree with your assertions about camo paint coverage and application.

 

[M45]

Let me say too that this forum is not going to be a place for singling out people and their helmets to thrash. This is not a place to obliquely air out personal issues and engage in attacks by thrashing someone's gear.


Fair enough. A look through this thread will find questionable camos from many different places; they are so easy to find it seems like they are everywhere.



For those who prefer Ebay camos, here is one from a large collection that was purchased (doesn't that get our collector interest simmering ?)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-German-WW-2-M42-Helmet-/201663398746

Original German WW 2 - M42 Helmet US $790.00

shell marker and batch number , original color, liner ( size 57 ), chinstrap / marker

look picture for details, this helmet is in a condition

100 % a original, worn, belonging together helmet, as in the condition as it was found,

this helmet comes out from a larger collection we have purchased, for other helmets please ask,
I ship this item from Germany, the shipping costs are $ 40 with a registered mail , shipping time is approx. 14 - 20 business - days.

I accept paypal payments &cash payments, to combine a shipment is no problem,

For questions sent me a e-mail please


Ebay camos are usually child's play when it comes to outing them. An old hkp M42 shell with what appears to be original factory paint enhanced by a camo spray and new components.

See how easy that was ? Not much fun, really. I enjoy critiquing the well-done questionable camos, those believed by some to be authentic.

 

[M45]

I personally like this one. I would certainly not dismiss it without a hands out. I also respectfully disagree with your assertions about camo paint coverage and application.

Fair enough. I just don't see that much difference between the SE66 camo above and REX-39's work.

 

[acer]

A critique of a few of Acer's camos.

Remember, the word is 'questionable' not 'fake'. Also, I'm going by only one photo per.

Camo #1 - Near 100% of camo remaining, ding in front excepted (didn't see much combat at all). Age looks decent, but not much COMBAT WEAR to go along with it.

Camo #2 - I would say the paint was chemically aged/distressed. Scrapes reveal the fresh paint underneath (a very bad sign, IMO).

Camo #3 - Not bad. At one time I would have been in with both feet with this one, but considering what I have seen in the last years, I would not bet my life on it.

Camo #4 - An 'exotic freshie' with great aging and distress. Well distributed minor wear. How did that high-profile rivet head escape any serious damage compared to the rest of the lid ?

Camo #5 - Great overall wear and distress. Is that decal trying to be ET ? Once again, BURGUNDY in stead of red-brown and fine micro-spatter indicating modern spray equipment.

Camo #6 - Very nice overall. Rivet head is pristine except for one ding compared to the moderate wear elsewhere (disparity). Too many parallel scratches for my taste.


Overall assessment: Exotic freshies with near 100% of camo remaining and new/bright appearing paint. Various problems include wrong RAL paint colors, micro-spatter, a general lack of believable combat wear, and disparity of wear on components. Great movie props are what is being accepted as authentic camos.

Are you speaking seriously?

So i have a bunch of fakes???, Lol....

Have you done it alone, or somebody has helped you to do it?, now i can confirm all what i thought about you, you are falling by your own. Please keep doing Hhahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahhaah

 

[acer]

Fair enough. I just don't see that much difference between the SE66 camo above and REX-39's work.

Yes, i understand it as you spent a lot of time working in your notvalue book, you beeter may study helmets instead of writting nosesnses. Same work???, well... what to expect from somebody who from 6 original camos, only one or two have good view by you.

ALSO I UNDERSTAND WHY DONT YOU POST YOUR CAMOS, DO YOU HAVE THEM AS POTS??!!!

As said, you are falling like leaves in the falll

HB, as i said, this person is not an expert for this thread ( not even me) but you can see how he "explain" his opinions. Now and more than behind this man musnt be take seriously

 

[Hambone]

A recent GHW2 3-color camo.

Not impressive at all. It has that look of a modern distressed camo, IMO. The interior shots only reinforce that assessment.

One thing I have noticed about camos in general is that when I saw camos I believed to be authentic throughout my collecting career, I noticed that many of them had the camo very sparsely applied, as if the paint was being rationed or stretched to go further; camo daubed on in splotches here or there.

Many questionable camos, in contrast, have paint very liberally sloshed on, thickly applied and even interior rims camoed as if there was no care to how much paint was being used.

As I understand it, many/most 3-color RAL camos were done by units in the field, most of the helmets sprayed by one team. With so much emphasis on conservation of materials during the TR era, it does not make much sense for them to be spraying a lot of interior rims (basically wasting the camo and the time).

I compare this helmet to at least two that I have. I'm not saying I like this helmet just because I have several like it and wish these two below were original. I KNOW FOR A FACT, absolutely, without question, 100%, that these two helmets are original. One came directly out of the vet's footlocker, then the other has the mailing label on it showing who mailed it home. These two camos were done by the same Luftwaffe unit, one was sourced out of Washington state, the other Mississippi, and the two soldiers who brought them back served in different units, but units which were in the exact same AO, and the same AO as the FPN on one of them. I would bet my life on the originality of these two helmets. Or, I will bet any amount of money anyone wants to put up.

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?11822-M-40-Lw-camo-twins-vet-mailing-label

While few and far between, there really are some original camo helmets that weren't used much and are in excellent shape.

 

[Hambone]

Yes, i understand it as you spent a lot of time working in your notvalue book, you beeter may study helmets instead of writting nosesnses. Same work???, well... what to expect from somebody who from 6 original camos, only one or two have good view by you.

ALSO I UNDERSTAND WHY DONT YOU POST YOUR CAMOS, DO YOU HAVE THEM AS POTS??!!!

As said, you are falling like leaves in the falll

HB, as i said, this person is not an expert for this thread ( not even me) but you can see how he "explain" his opinions. Now and more than behind this man musnt be take seriously

M45's reference book is outstanding. I strongly urge anyone involved in helmet collecting, or having a slight interest, to buy it. It is one of the best investments I've made in reference material and I use it often.

 

[acer]

M45's reference book is outstanding. I strongly urge anyone involved in helmet collecting, or having a slight interest, to buy it. It is one of the best investments I've made in reference material and I use it often.

Sorry, but i disagree.... this book is non valuable, Why he didnt mention it when a camo is shown here and ask lot nr to check it?, would be faster and more veritable than his explanations ( sorry, here i must laugh, )

I know many members that bought it thinking valuable and now is lost in the libreries

 

[NathanLM]

In the recent poll conducted at GHW2 concerning the Ice LN study, the largest percentage of voters voted "Yes, it's useful, every helmet collector must have one". Food for thought Asser.

 

[M45]

I compare this helmet to at least two that I have. I'm not saying I like this helmet just because I have several like it and wish these two below were original. I KNOW FOR A FACT, absolutely, without question, 100%, that these two helmets are original. One came directly out of the vet's footlocker, then the other has the mailing label on it showing who mailed it home. These two camos were done by the same Luftwaffe unit, one was sourced out of Washington state, the other Mississippi, and the two soldiers who brought them back served in different units, but units which were in the exact same AO, and the same AO as the FPN on one of them. I would bet my life on the originality of these two helmets. Or, I will bet any amount of money anyone wants to put up.

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?11822-M-40-Lw-camo-twins-vet-mailing-label

While few and far between, there really are some original camo helmets that weren't used much and are in excellent shape.

Camos in general were few and far between in collector's circles in the '50s and '60s, and those in excellent shape were even fewer.

Of course they exist (I'm not saying they don't). It's just that most of the 'good stuff' has been 'collected up' over the years and now resides in top-end collections.

Some of the 'exotic freshies' in excellent condition we are seeing coming out of the woodwork in recent years are very possibly side-by-side copies of actual originals.

Of course they look good, of course they look like known originals. It is similar to the forging of historic artwork that looks so good it even fools the art experts.

We should take note of what REX (a good guy) is capable of and realize that he is not the only one with these and similar capabilities. However, they are not marking their work as REX is, but those helmets are entering collector's circles via "vet acquisitions", "wood-work finds", "barn discoveries" and "old collections".

 

[acer]

In the recent poll conducted at GHW2 concerning the Ice LN study, the largest percentage of voters voted "Yes, it's useful, every helmet collector must have one". Food for thought Asser.

You mean those who had voted, but not all are there

 

[Hambone]

Sorry, but i disagree.... this book is non valuable, Why he didnt mention it when a camo is shown here and ask lot nr to check it?, would be faster and more veritable than his explanations ( sorry, here i must laugh, )

I know many members that bought it thinking valuable and now is lost in the libreries

It's been of immense value to me and I use it. I was collecting a decade before the internet so my research material is a rather large library of books. I take pride in my research library and know the difference between good and bad reference material. M45 has produced good reference material and I highly recommend it, enough to endorse it and make a sticky of it.

No one gains credibility by letting personal feelings control vetting of helmets, books, or anything else.

 

[acer]

It's been of immense value to me and I use it. I was collecting a decade before the internet so my research material is a rather large library of books. I take pride in my research library and know the difference between good and bad reference material. M45 has produced good reference material and I highly recommend it, enough to endorse it and make a sticky of it.

No one gains credibility by letting personal feelings control vetting of helmets, books, or anything else.

Let me doubt it Lol, this last senstence resume M45